Master Lye Gremlin Habitat

[CaraBou]

I think my master lye solutions harbor gremlins. I've only made it twice (small batches, just what fits in a quart sized water bottle), but I've had soap troubles when using both of them. I can't be sure that's what caused the problems, but my batting average is so low that I strongly suspect this is the culprit. The most recent problem (a few weeks ago) was a seize, which after I got past that, produced a soap that was brittle in a few places.

I still have what's left of this latest solution. I made it as 50/50, and compensated water loss/evap upon initial cool down by comparing to the known weight of the bottle. After sitting a few weeks, it appears some of the lye settled out of solution. Is that normal, or is my solution too strong? I wish there was a way to test it. As far as I know, there would be no way to know how much water to add.

After shaking the bottle vigorously, the precipitate *mostly* went back into solution. The solution is definitely thick and opaque, which I read is normal. But there were gel-like beads on the side of the bottle, and some floaties. I strained three times but I didn't get all of the floaties. I think it is sodium carbonate, but I'm not sure. Pic below.

My confidence in this solution is very low, and I haven't decided whether to make a very simple test batch or just pitch it. But I don't want to give up on master batching altogether yet because I really desire the ease of it. And come on -- it's a 50/50 solution -- how hard can this be??

So, I'm asking for any and all tips on how you effectively work with master batched lye. Help me keep those gremlins at bay!

TIA guys!

 

[cmzaha]

You are adding in the balance of your needed liquid. I always subtract the lye amount from total water/liquid needed and just dump the extra liquid in before adding my 50/50 lye solution. I have been soaping with 50/50 for about 2 yrs with no problems and yes, it does stay thick and opaque with some settlement on the bottom. I always shake my bottle before using, mine is stored in gallon jugs, and do not use the very bottom when at the end of the jug.

 

[CanaDawn]

What's your water like?

 

[cmzaha]

I forgot to mention I make all my lye solutions with distilled water. When I first mix my 50/50 solution I use a 2 gallon hdpe bucket, while it is cooling it will get a little crusty on top. I just stain in when pouring into my gallon storage bottles

 

[CaraBou]

I use distilled water too, and yes, I do add the remaining amount of water needed in a recipe. Do you think that is ash/sodium carbonate floating, and do you get that too? It seems like each time I poured and filtered, I got more flakes, but maybe that was just gremlin paranoia getting the best of me. I suppose my mesh size is just too big.

 

[new12soap]

I see you live in alaska. What is the storage temperature of your solution? At colder temps 50/50 is not enough to hold the lye and it will fall out of the solution. You can either change your masterbatch to something more like 33% or put the container in a warm water bath to heat it up and dissolve all the lye before you measure it.

Also, you said you are using a 1qt water bottle. Is it HDPE 2 or PP 5? Those tend to be the best for chemical resistance.

 

[pamielynn]

When I've tried it, I've gotten the crusties. Haven't done it in awhile because I'm always nervous that straining all of them out reduces the amount of actual lye. Probably not true, but the batches I've made from the crusty, strained lye came out too soft.

 

[katsntx]

I get the same thing. At first I thought it was eating away the plastic pitcher I was using even though according to 'the rules', it should have been okay. So I switched to a stainless steel container with tight fitting lid. Same problem. I strain and strain, but I too, get nervous about what actually ends up staying in the solution.

You can do as stated and add water to compensate for the water evaporation, but how do you know if you are straining out lye?

Is there anyone out there who doesn't get this when masterbatching?

 

[cmzaha]

The floaties at the top of the lye solution are just sodium carbonate, washing soda, and will not hurt anything. Hard crust on the bottom of the pitcher is hardened lye and that you do not want to use.

 

[new12soap]

I get the same thing. At first I thought it was eating away the plastic pitcher I was using even though according to 'the rules', it should have been okay. So I switched to a stainless steel container with tight fitting lid. Same problem. I strain and strain, but I too, get nervous about what actually ends up staying in the solution.

You can do as stated and add water to compensate for the water evaporation, but how do you know if you are straining out lye?

Is there anyone out there who doesn't get this when masterbatching?

I don't. When I mixed masterbatches, I weigh everything, then after the solution has cooled I weigh it again. I make sure I add back the few grams that evaporated off so my solution is at least 50/50. If in a 2000g batch I am a few grams over on water, I don't worry about that. Much better than too little water.

 

[CaraBou]

I see you live in alaska. What is the storage temperature of your solution? At colder temps 50/50 is not enough to hold the lye and it will fall out of the solution. You can either change your masterbatch to something more like 33% or put the container in a warm water bath to heat it up and dissolve all the lye before you measure it.

Also, you said you are using a 1qt water bottle. Is it HDPE 2 or PP 5? Those tend to be the best for chemical resistance.

My house is generally 64-69 degrees, so you may be right about it being too cool to hold the lye in solution. That would explain the precipitation/settling of lye to the bottom of the bottle. But it doesn't help explain the brittle soap I got last time since I would expect that to result from a lye heavy soap, not a lye light soap. And like you, I reweighed the solution after the cooldown when I first made it, and added back in the water that was lost to evap. So I wouldn't think I'd have a lye heavy solution. In any event, heating it in a water bath to put the lye back into solution makes good sense to me.

I stored the solution in a hard plastic reuseable water bottle used for hiking. There is no number on it but I assumed it was HDPE 2. Interestingly enough it broke at the mouthpiece threads today when I heated the bottle in a water bath in a pot on the stove (this thread reinvigorated me to try a 500 g test batch of soap with it). I thought I loosened the cap enough to vent any pressure buildup during the water bath heatup, but I wonder if that's what caused it. I didn't feel anything break when I twisted the cap so it may have already happened. So glad it broke at the top, since it could have been a disaster if it had broke along the side or the bottom.

So that pretty much confirms it for me, I definitely have gremlins. I made one last batch with it and cleaned my drain with the rest. If I master batch again I'll be tempted to use a larger container (of known composition) so any error will be smaller than what I might have had with the 26 oz bottle. But then again, that's just that much more lye to dispose of if I have trouble again. :think:

 

[new12soap]

YIKES!

So thankful no one was hurt!

 

[cmzaha]

I use distilled water too, and yes, I do add the remaining amount of water needed in a recipe. Do you think that is ash/sodium carbonate floating, and do you get that too? It seems like each time I poured and filtered, I got more flakes, but maybe that was just gremlin paranoia getting the best of me. I suppose my mesh size is just too big.

Yes I do get it on my batch solution. I just get the cap back on the bottle as fast as I can.

 

[Jstar]

Just curious if anyone that gets those floaties..do you wash your lye containers in the dishwasher? If yes, that could be where those are coming from....as for the brittleness of the finished soaps..if its not lye heavy then I don't have a clue

 

[CaraBou]

Jstar, as I understand it, the sodium carbonate floaties come from the NaOH reacting with carbon dioxide from the air. That's why cmzaha said she caps her solution as quickly as possible. It has come up in a couple other threads here, that's the only reason I know it.

As for the brittle soap, I think it was lye heavy and I rebatched those parts. That's one reason I thought my masterbatch was lye heavy.