Liquid shampoo

[Soapmaker333]

Hello,

I am looking for someone who is experienced with shampoo making. How is it that a soap company can make shampoo that doesn't have a very cleansing feeling with just these ingredients in the pcicture? It's a very nice feeling shampoo but everyone also says you need surfactants for shampoo. Clearly not. I don't see any surfactants here at all. What would be the process for making a shampoo with these ingredients? They only use saponified coconut oil. None of the other oils are saponified.

Thanks

 

[Zany_in_CO]

I am looking for someone who is experienced with shampoo making.

That would be little ole lonely me. I am the Rodney Dangerfield of SMF because I make lye-based shampoo, liquid and bar.

Alaiyna B Blogspot - Liquid Shampoo Tutorial

If you've never made liquid soap before, take some time to read the rest of the info provided on that site. Make a few small batches to get the hang of it before adding pricey extracts, additives, fragrance, etc. NOTE: I once made 100% Almond Oil Shampoo by special request for a customer. I was amazed at how much lather it had. Almond oil is very good for hair.

It's a very nice feeling shampoo but everyone also says you need surfactants for shampoo.

The subject of lye-based shampoo bars used to be banned due to the strong emotional response to the possibility of damage it can cause. Lye-based shampoo is not for everyone. Search "Shampoo" to learn more. The large majority of SMF members make and recommend syndets for that reason.

I have not had that problem. I've been using bars and liquid to wash my hair ever since I first joined a forum in 2004. But I had good mentors and there are some things you should be aware of before going down that road.

EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT ALL NATURAL SHAMPOO

HAPPY SHAMPOOING!

 

[AliOop]

That ingredient list looks very odd to me. It starts with a CO-based liquid soap (potassium cocoate) and glycerin, followed by a slew of other oils and extracts added. However, no emulsifier is listed, and that would be necessary to keep any significant amount of those oils and extracts combined with the liquid soap, rather than separating out.

Did they intentionally leave out the emulsifier from the ingredients list (because it won't sound "natural")?

Or does one of these extracts serve as an emulsifier?

OR... are they using mere drops of every ingredient after the potassium cocoate and glycerin, so that the total amount of extras is low enough not to separate from the soap? If so, I don't see how there could be enough of any of those additional ingredients to make any meaningful difference in the soap.

 

[DeeAnna]

@Soapmaker333 -- "...everyone also says you need surfactants for shampoo. Clearly not. I don't see any surfactants here at all...."

I see some misunderstandings here, so time for some clarifications.

Coconut oil saponified with KOH (potassium cocoate) is soap. So soap is the main cleansing ingredient in this product.

A simple way of defining a surfactant is any chemical that acts as a chemical bridge between water INsoluble chemicals like fats and water. This chemical bridging causes fats (or other water insoluble chemicals) to become more water soluble.

Surfactants (surface active agents) include emulsifiers, solubilizers, soaps, synthetic detergents, and many other chemicals.

Soap is a surface active agent in that it can emulsify or solubilize fats so they become more water soluble, hence soap is a surfactant. Potassium cocoate is a soap hence it is also a surfactant.

A surfactant that is good at cleaning surfaces is called a detergent. Soap, including this potassium cocoate, is a surfactant that cleans, hence soap is a detergent.

Not every surfactant is good at cleaning things, however, so it's good to remember that all detergents are surfactants, but not all surfactants are detergents (cleansers).

@AliOop -- KOH soap can solubilize / emulsify small amounts of fats, so you're probably right they're using only tiny amounts of each oil to keep the total amount low enough the soap can handle the fat load.

 

[Soapmaker333]

@Soapmaker333 -- "...everyone also says you need surfactants for shampoo. Clearly not. I don't see any surfactants here at all...."

I see some misunderstandings here, so time for some clarifications.

Coconut oil saponified with KOH (potassium cocoate) is soap. So soap is the main cleansing ingredient in this product.

A simple way of defining a surfactant is any chemical that acts as a chemical bridge between water INsoluble chemicals like fats and water. This chemical bridging causes fats (or other water insoluble chemicals) to become more water soluble.

Surfactants (surface active agents) include emulsifiers, solubilizers, soaps, synthetic detergents, and many other chemicals.

Soap is a surface active agent in that it can emulsify or solubilize fats so they become more water soluble, hence soap is a surfactant. Potassium cocoate is a soap hence it is also a surfactant.

A surfactant that is good at cleaning surfaces is called a detergent. Soap, including this potassium cocoate, is a surfactant that cleans, hence soap is a detergent.

Not every surfactant is good at cleaning things, however, so it's good to remember that all detergents are surfactants, but not all surfactants are detergents (cleansers).

@AliOop -- KOH soap can solubilize / emulsify small amounts of fats, so you're probably right they're using only tiny amounts of each oil to keep the total amount low enough the soap can handle the fat load.

Thanks for your response. I understand that you are categorizing saponified coconut oil as a surfactant, and while it is cleansing, by modern standards it is by no means a surfactant.

 

[Shgre]

Great question! This is something I've always wondered.

 

[DeeAnna]

... categorizing saponified coconut oil as a surfactant ... it is by no means a surfactant.

Kindly cite a reputable source that says soap, whether potassium cocoate or any other form of soap, is not a surfactant.

 

[Soapmaker333]

There are a couple of definitions. Soap is and of itself is a surfactant, but it is not a chemical surfactant. Most liquid soaps are made of chemical surfactants and not saponified oils.

I don't understand why you came in here with a bad attitude. It is unfortunate. You are by no means welcoming, you have been condescending. I can see that even you had to edit your comment because you must have perceived your condescension.

 

[Soapmaker333]

Again, a surfactant in colloquial terms is not referring to soap, but the chemicals used in it. In colloquial terms no one refers to soap as an added surfactant/chemical. But you, being very literal, have come to correct everyone rather than help. I would appreciate it if you leave this post alone unless you would like to be kind.

 

[Soapmaker333]

That would be little ole lonely me. I am the Rodney Dangerfield of SMF because I make lye-based shampoo, liquid and bar.

Alaiyna B Blogspot - Liquid Shampoo Tutorial

If you've never made liquid soap before, take some time to read the rest of the info provided on that site. Make a few small batches to get the hang of it before adding pricey extracts, additives, fragrance, etc. NOTE: I once made 100% Almond Oil Shampoo by special request for a customer. I was amazed at how much lather it had. Almond oil is very good for hair.


The subject of lye-based shampoo bars used to be banned due to the strong emotional response to the possibility of damage it can cause. Lye-based shampoo is not for everyone. Search "Shampoo" to learn more. The large majority of SMF members make and recommend syndets for that reason.

I have not had that problem. I've been using bars and liquid to wash my hair ever since I first joined a forum in 2004. But I had good mentors and there are some things you should be aware of before going down that road.

EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT ALL NATURAL SHAMPOO

HAPPY SHAMPOOING!

What an excellent and helpful response. Thank you so much!

 

[Soapmaker333]

@Soapmaker333 -- "...everyone also says you need surfactants for shampoo. Clearly not. I don't see any surfactants here at all...."

I see some misunderstandings here, so time for some clarifications.

Coconut oil saponified with KOH (potassium cocoate) is soap. So soap is the main cleansing ingredient in this product.

A simple way of defining a surfactant is any chemical that acts as a chemical bridge between water INsoluble chemicals like fats and water. This chemical bridging causes fats (or other water insoluble chemicals) to become more water soluble.

Surfactants (surface active agents) include emulsifiers, solubilizers, soaps, synthetic detergents, and many other chemicals.

Soap is a surface active agent in that it can emulsify or solubilize fats so they become more water soluble, hence soap is a surfactant. Potassium cocoate is a soap hence it is also a surfactant.

A surfactant that is good at cleaning surfaces is called a detergent. Soap, including this potassium cocoate, is a surfactant that cleans, hence soap is a detergent.

Not every surfactant is good at cleaning things, however, so it's good to remember that all detergents are surfactants, but not all surfactants are detergents (cleansers).

@AliOop -- KOH soap can solubilize / emulsify small amounts of fats, so you're probably right they're using only tiny amounts of each oil to keep the total amount low enough the soap can handle the fat load.

I see what you mean. I meant surfactant in a particular way that is used colloquially - a chemical surfactant. This is helpful, thank you.

 

[AliOop]

Whoa @Soapmaker333 you have totally misconstrued DeeAnna's tone, intent, and content. She is THE most helpful person on this site. And everything she said in her post is scientifically and technically correct.

If you prefer to use "colloquial" terms, you are free to do so. But that doesn't make DeeAnna wrong, rude, or unhelpful.

 

[Soapmaker333]

Great question! This is something I've always wondered.

There are some good answers on here!

Whoa @Soapmaker333 you have totally misconstrued DeeAnna's tone, intent, and content. She is THE most helpful person on this site. And everything she said in her post is scientifically and technically correct.

If you prefer to use "colloquial" terms, you are free to do so. But that doesn't make DeeAnna wrong, rude, or unhelpful.

I don't think so. This is how she addressed me originally. With condescension. If that is not insulting and unhelpful I don't know what is.

 

[AliOop]

There are some good answers on here!

I don't think so. This is how she addressed me originally. With condescension. If that is not insulting and unhelpful I don't know what is.

I can assure you that you are misreading the tone of that comment. It was tongue-in-cheek, not condescending. Your subsequent comments were way over the top, and everything that you are accusing her of being.

 

[KiwiMoose]

You add to the suffering of this world just as much when you take offence, as when you give offence. One of my favourite sayings.

 

[cmzaha]

Whoa @Soapmaker333 you have totally misconstrued DeeAnna's tone, intent, and content. She is THE most helpful person on this site. And everything she said in her post is scientifically and technically correct.

If you prefer to use "colloquial" terms, you are free to do so. But that doesn't make DeeAnna wrong, rude, or unhelpful.

My opinion is the same as yours. We now attack one of the most helpful persons in this forum. Wow!! But then, many do not like opinions when they do not match theirs. BTW I am one of the totally again "SOAP" as shampoo. It will destroy long beautiful hair or has a very high possibility of doing so. I have a large feeling Zany has short hair which is cut regularly.

 

[Soapmaker333]

I'm sorry everyone but I think you're biased. She says? "Ahem" which is tongue in cheek, who is the audience of this joke?

I apologize if I made the wrong asusmption, truly. Clearly if you edit a comment you must regret the way you talked though.

 

[Soapmaker333]

My opinion is the same as yours. We now attack one of the most helpful persons in this forum. Wow!! But then, many do not like opinions when they do not match theirs. BTW I am one of the totally again "SOAP" as shampoo. It will destroy long beautiful hair or has a very high possibility of doing so. I have a large feeling Zany has short hair which is cut regularly.

Thank you for your commentary.

 

[Soapmaker333]

You add to the suffering of this world just as much when you take offence, as when you give offence. One of my favourite sayings.

I think that saying is objectively false. Perhaps it can only be applied to innocuous offenses.

 

[AliOop]

I'm sorry everyone but I think you're biased. She says? "Ahem" which is tongue in cheek, who is the audience of this joke?

I apologize if I made the wrong asusmption, truly. Clearly if you edit a comment you must regret the way you talked though.

The fact that she edited after she realized you weren't tracking with her humor, doesn't mean she was wrong.

Humility is a sign of kindness and strength, not weakness.