Just The Facts, Please

[dosco]

On at least 2 artisan websites I've noted derogatory references to the use of animal fats in soap as well as the use of triple milling.

From my standpoint animal fats are just fine as a source of raw triglycerides necessary for soap. Furthermore the use of fats makes some sense as it uses a natural byproduct of 'animal husbandry and butchering.' I'm fine with folks who don't like the use of animals for anything and/or animal cruelty ... but my personal opinion is that there is no scientific or other technical reason that makes animal fat = bad.

As far as triple milling, I was under the impression (after reading a very old book about soap manufacture) that the purposes of milling were 1) to make a more uniform product, 2) to make a product with less water that was more long-lasting, and 3) to facilitate the inclusion of scents (since milling is essentially a 'cold process').

Can anyone shed more scientific or technical light on these issues? I'm wondering what I'm missing.

Warm Regards-
Dave

 

[Meganmischke]

All I know is how much I love animal fats in soap. If people make derogatory comments it is their reputation.

 

[IrishLass]

Welcome, Dave!

I agree 100% with you on the use of animal fats. One of my favorite formulas to make (and use) is my lard/beef tallow formula.

As for triple-milling, that is something that's quite impossible for us home soap-makers to accomplish in our humble kitchens, basements, or soap shacks. Triple-milling requires expensive equipment, namely pressure rollers. Basically, from what I understand from others who have explained it to me, the triple milling (i.e. French milling) process starts with making soap and separating the glycerin out (which they do because it gums up the pressure rollers), then the remaining soap is ground into 'noodles' or 'pearls' that are passed through pressure rollers under high heat and pressure 3 times to force all liquid the out of it. Next, it is then mixed with color and scent and whatever other additives and pressed into bars.

As home soap-makers, we do something called 'milling' or 're-batching', but it is a far cry from triple-milled, especially since we don't remove any of the glycerin from our soap.

Hopefully, others with more first-hand knowledgeable of the triple-milling process will chime in.

IrishLass

 

[dosco]

All I know is how much I love animal fats in soap. If people make derogatory comments it is their reputation.

One would think that but there are plenty of uneducated consumers out there. I see it on the shaving forums all the time.

(yes ... I'm one of those troublemaking wet shavers)

 

[Susie]

As much as I love lard in soap, and I appreciate the fact that all the glycerin is left in my soap, I am glad that I do not shop with those folks. I would not know how wonderful hand made soap is if I had tried them first. Let the buyer beware.

 

[dosco]

I agree 100% with you on the use of animal fats. One of my favorite formulas to make (and use) is my lard/beef tallow formula.

Me too. I needed some help finding "unscented" lard, though. (thanks Lee!)

As for triple-milling, that is something that's quite impossible for us home soap-makers to accomplish in our humble kitchens, basements, or soap shacks.

That was my understanding of triple/French milling ... not inherently bad, although by "adding additives" I can see how one with an agenda may extrapolate a bit too far.

As home soap-makers, we do something called 'milling' or 're-batching', but it is a far cry from triple-milled, especially since we don't remove any of the glycerin from our soap.

Yes, I've done this.

My first batches of shave soap were "mechanically milled" in my food processor (it was only about 50g of soap so it worked out).

When I tried to mechanically mill a pound of soap it failed miserably and I had to go to the hot rebatching method ... which worked excellently.

Thanks for sharing!

Regards-
Dave

 

[dosco]

I would not know how wonderful hand made soap is if I had tried them first.

That's exactly the problem ... one of these artisans' main selling points is that the soap is "handmade."

Let the buyer beware.

Also part of my point ... if the buyer doesn't take time to learn about what makes soap and what makes good soap then silly people will take their money (and the uneducated consumer won't know that there's better product "out there").

Heck, I didn't think much about soap until I decided to make some myself last year ...

Ah well. Off the soapbox.

(see what I did there? lol)

-Dave

 

[wetshavingproducts]

Vegans can be uh... very set in their beliefs and extremely vocal. Pig headed and stubborn come to my mind. Now that's a human characteristic, but since we're talking about vegans in particular in this thread, let's just call a duck a duck.

What they don't understand is that the vast majority of humans don't share their beliefs. That and cost concerns trump ethical concerns to many people. Veganism is a rich person thing.

So, now that I've cleared up the fact that the world is the way it is, animal fat is a good source of fats to use in soapmaking. It's been used since the beginning of soap. Nothing is wrong with it other than an animal was killed.

In fact, I bet there are butchers that throw away the trimmings.

So, the animal stuff out of the way....

I'm pretty sure triple milling accomplishes several main goals in the industrial size production of soap:

1) it eliminates the need for curing as the water is extracted via the rollers
2) it allows for easy & uniform molding
3) it saves on fragrance (a big chunk of the cost of homemade soap)

Here's a video that I found interesting:
http://youtu.be/1baLzbathvI

 

[LunaSkye]

I don't think there is anything wrong with using animal fats except when there is the issue with one's religion, cultural background, or allergies. I love using lard in soaps and would love to make a full lard and/or tallow soap someday.

As far as triple-milling, I'll take IrishLass' word on that.

 

[dosco]

Vegans can be uh... very set in their beliefs and extremely vocal.

So, now that I've cleared up the fact that the world is the way it is, animal fat is a good source of fats to use in soapmaking. It's been used since the beginning of soap. Nothing is wrong with it other than an animal was killed.

I tend to agree that these folks are pushing an agenda and not sound facts. Unfortunately.

I'm pretty sure triple milling accomplishes several main goals in the industrial size production of soap:

1) it eliminates the need for curing as the water is extracted via the rollers
2) it allows for easy & uniform molding
3) it saves on fragrance (a big chunk of the cost of homemade soap)

Probably these too, yes.

Here's a video that I found interesting:
http://youtu.be/1baLzbathvI

Cool. Thanks for sharing!

-Dave

 

[Meganmischke]

Veganism is a rich person thing.

Though I agree with most of your original comment, I will tell you that this is not always the case. I happened to grow up very poor and very vegan, but things were very different then. We spent all summer in the garden and canning to be able to survive new England winters. I know love meat and happily feed it to my family of 9.

 

[Seawolfe]

I make an 80% lard soap using the manteca from the local grocery store - sold in beautiful white blocks. Some might hesitate until they try it, then they love it.
The funniest was when a good friend went against his vegetarian boyfriends crossed arms and pursed lips and snagged some lard soap to take home, we all had a bit of a giggle over that. Honestly, this summer has been so hot and we've all been out on the sea and in the sun - we NEED that moisturizing!

 

[LBussy]

if the buyer doesn't take time to learn about what makes soap and what makes good soap then silly people will take their money (and the uneducated consumer won't know that there's better product "out there").

Surely that doesn't happen?!

 

[LBussy]

Vegans can be uh... very set in their beliefs and extremely vocal. Pig headed and stubborn come to my mind. Now that's a human characteristic, but since we're talking about vegans in particular in this thread, let's just call a duck a duck.

What they don't understand is that the vast majority of humans don't share their beliefs. That and cost concerns trump ethical concerns to many people. Veganism is a rich person thing.

#FIRSTWORLDPROBLEM

 

[dosco]

Surely that doesn't happen?!

It happens!

And stop calling me Shirley!

-lol-

 

[LBussy]

And stop calling me Shirley!

Roger, Roger!

 

[lenarenee]

Hey Dave, I don't know where you are in Maryland, but there's a family owned grass fed beef farm in Ijamsville called Hedgeapple Farms. They sell their meat from a little shop on the farm.
If you're willing to render it yourself, you'll get the benefit of grass fed tallow!

(lovely area, I used to just drive around that part of Frederick county for the beauty of it. Even when the Monocacy was flooded...which is just about every time it rained 2 inches.)

p.s. actually the mailing address may be Buckeystown??

 

[snappyllama]

Ex-vegetarian here...

I now love using lard in cooking. Honestly, if you're not a vegetarian and making pie or tortillas without lard - you're doing it wrong.

I don't keep vegetable shortening in my pantry... If a recipe calls for Crisco, I substitute lard instead. Contrary to popular belief, it's better for you (and far tastier) than vegetable shortening.

I still love my vegan/vegetarian friends and often make meatless dinners. However, vegan cheesecake is an abomination.

When I was a vegetarian, I wouldn't have made or purchased lard/tallow soaps. Now that I eat meat, I want to use as much of the animal as possible.

 

[LBussy]

Great, now I'm hungry.

 

[Susie]

It just makes far more sense to me to use every part of an animal that is being slaughtered for meat. To not do so is a waste. No pigs or cows are being raised and harvested strictly for lard or tallow. It is a by-product. If getting the fat was the primary reason they were being raised, I might would have to agree with the vegans.