Just The Facts, Please

[LBussy]

It's natures miracle really. Pigs turn green leafy vegetables into Bacon.

 

[sassanellat]

I'll also point out that it IS green to use waste products, it IS better for the environment to soap fats than to send them to the landfill, and it IS ethical and honorable to use all parts of an animal sacrificed for other reasons. Animals are not being killed for fat for soapers. There is plenty of green, sustainable, and realistic common sense to using animal fats.

Vegans can be very trying - it's their less healthy lifestyle (and yes, it is according to the scientific literature) that makes them cranky.

 

[sassanellat]

It just makes far more sense to me to use every part of an animal that is being slaughtered for meat. To not do so is a waste. No pigs or cows are being raised and harvested strictly for lard or tallow. It is a by-product. If getting the fat was the primary reason they were being raised, I might would have to agree with the vegans.

Me, too. We all need to make than extra bit of effort to be sensible and understand the trade-offs of our choices.

 

[DeeAnna]

"... it eliminates the need for curing as the water is extracted via the rollers..."

Um, no not really. The soap has to be cured down or dried down BEFORE milling. As Irish Lass pointed out, the soap has to be relatively non-sticky -- dry, cool, and low glycerin -- for the milling to work properly.

"...My first batches of shave soap were "mechanically milled" in my food processor..."

Processing soap in a food processor is high-shear mixing. Quite a different process than milling. Milling is more like rolling down dough in a noodle press.

 

[goji_fries]

I'll also point out that it IS green to use waste products, it IS better for the environment to soap fats than to send them to the landfill, and it IS ethical and honorable to use all parts of an animal sacrificed for other reasons. Animals are not being killed for fat for soapers. There is plenty of green, sustainable, and realistic common sense to using animal fats.

Vegans can be very trying - it's their less healthy lifestyle (and yes, it is according to the scientific literature) that makes them cranky.

Wise indeed sassanellat. Many peoples used every bit of the animal they were going to eat; an example would be roasted sheep face from Italy, chicken marrow soups in many cultures, tripe, jello even.. If people have a problem with tallow or lard what is the real issue? It is good that if an animal should die to feed others, to use all of it.

Excellent point: that a pig is not being sacrificed at the altar of lard avarice and the rest going unused. In other cultures people have no problems with this since many people worldwide have barely enough to eat.

 

[sassanellat]

Even worse, the landfill is anaerobic, so the breakdown product is usually methane, which is at least 30 times as powerful as CO2 as a greenhouse gas. Saponified soap? Nearly all will end up as CO2. There is a lot to consider.

 

[Jstar]

All I can say is a quote from Robin Williams

"Now..is the time..for cow"

 

[Chefmom]

If vegans/vegetarians only knew how many animals perished in the process of growing all those vegetables...

 

[grumpy_owl]

I'm a part-time vegan and I use exclusively tallow or lard in my soaps. I support the idea of nose-to-tail use of the animal, humanely raised and consciously butchered so that every bit is used up. It probably sounds like a contradiction and to be honest, I have never thought through my entire ideology in order to come up with a solid reasoning, but the fact is, using palm oil makes me very queasy and I understand the properties of animal fats and LOVE the way they feel on on my skin. Making soap requires using up some of the earth's precious resources--that's just a fact.
Can we 1) conserve the planet's precious dwindling plant and animal resources 2) leave our animal population unscathed 3) make nummy soaps all at the same time? No.
So it's a trade-off like everything else. Not sure which sites you are talking about, but that's why I stick around here. A diverse array of soapers with their own points of view; everyone is helpful, enthusiastic, encouraging, well-researched, funny, smart and cute.
Well, I just assume we're all cute.

 

[LBussy]

conserve the planet's precious dwindling plant and animal resources

I'm not sure we have dwindling resources. We may have economic policies that cause less to be produced however. If you take a drive through the nation's heartland there's no lack of resources. Other countries? Sure, but you know different habitats are a way of life for animals. They move when their habitat is unsuitable. As humans we fight it and lament the fact that life is hard. Seems like we make our own issues.

(Not trying to be unsympathetic to people who are legitimately starving, just taking the "alien's view" of our marble in space.)

I live in the suburbs and on my way to work I will pass as many cattle as I will see in my office today if not a whole lot more. If we all of a sudden were wiped out the earth would not feel it and there would be plenty of "resources" as soon as the asphalt and concrete crumbled in a few years. 20 years and it would be like we were never here.

That was way more serious than I intended .. um ... SOAP!

 

[Susie]

Even worse, the landfill is anaerobic, so the breakdown product is usually methane, which is at least 30 times as powerful as CO2 as a greenhouse gas. Saponified soap? Nearly all will end up as CO2. There is a lot to consider.

Smart landfill owners use those piles to produce methane to sell. To use instead of more petroleum coming up out of the earth. One city I lived in had a waste management company that used the methane to fuel the garbage trucks and make electricity for their buildings. So, even if methane is being produced, good can come of it if people are willing to take the extra steps.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Dosco! Glad to see you here. I enjoy your posts on the B&B soaping area.

I agree that many blogs and so on push a certain angle more than others, which is one of the reasons that I love this place so much. There may well be common themes in what people think bit there is also a good deal of varying thought to keep things interesting

That said, I like using animal fats. The alternatives are either not similar enough or more expensive or both.

 

[LBussy]

Nothing like a face full of animal grease after pounding down some KC Barbecue!

And then .. um ... soap!

 

[sassanellat]

Good point. Using wha you can is great. Unfortunately, a lot escapes even when they try and capture it. Pesky gasses.

 

[wetshavingproducts]

Smart landfill owners use those piles to produce methane to sell. To use instead of more petroleum coming up out of the earth. One city I lived in had a waste management company that used the methane to fuel the garbage trucks and make electricity for their buildings. So, even if methane is being produced, good can come of it if people are willing to take the extra steps.

That's just making a bad thing less bad. While I recognize the need for an economical, safe, & productive method to dispose of trash; recycling is infinitely better.

 

[dosco]

That's just making a bad thing less bad. While I recognize the need for an economical, safe, & productive method to dispose of trash; recycling is infinitely better.

Except the a lot of recyclable stuff doesn't decompose into methane (metal, plastic come to mind).

For those organic bits that are recyclable, composting and using any methane from that process is probably a good idea. There has been some work in farms to compost animal feces and harvest the methane.

-Dave

 

[dosco]

Dosco! Glad to see you here. I enjoy your posts on the B&B soaping area.

Thanks! Nice to see you here as well.

I agree that many blogs and so on push a certain angle more than others, which is one of the reasons that I love this place so much. There may well be common themes in what people think bit there is also a good deal of varying thought to keep things interesting

Excellent. The misinformation on those other sites makes my head hurt.

That said, I like using animal fats. The alternatives are either not similar enough or more expensive or both.

Me too!

Anyone been able to get hydrogenated beef tallow? I'd like to try some of that.

-Dave

 

[Susie]

That's just making a bad thing less bad. While I recognize the need for an economical, safe, & productive method to dispose of trash; recycling is infinitely better.

I completely agree. It is better. But, down here, it costs far more for them to run a recycling plant or ship the recyclables off than it does to landfill it. City after city has tried and given up.

I have vegetable and herb plants(not big enough to call a garden), so I compost all the vegetable matter I can to feed them. I use, re-use, and re-purpose everything else possible. I do what I can with the choices I have. I think all of us have to do the same. And my choices do not have to be the same as yours for me to respect your opinions and get along. I think we all bring value and good information to the table. We may even learn something if we pay attention!

 

[alexiso]

I support the idea of nose-to-tail use of the animal, humanely raised and consciously butchered so that every bit is used up.

Hi everyone, I'm new and vegetarian and I wanted to chime in on this subject. What Grumpy Owl said I agree with and while I don't ever plan on using lard or tallow in my soap I am in agreement that the entire animal should be used so it doesn't go to waste.

But for me, I am vehemently against factory farming which is where most of the meat comes from and every dollar I spend towards meat or eggs (my BF is a carnivore) is spent consciously avoiding that industry. I refuse to support it, no matter how minute, and that's why I will never use or buy lard or tallow soap. Not because I'm pig-headed or uneducated. If you use humanely raised and butchered lard or tallow I applaud you and give you respect.

I wanted to throw that view out there since no one voiced that part of the issue. I wrote an article about Factory Farming if anyone would like to read it, I'm not going to link it yet so you guys don't think I'm pushing an agenda or anything.

 

[LBussy]

Welcome alexiso.

I don't think there's anything wrong with posting it, people can click or not. Speaking for myself only I think most omnivores have issues with people who are "militant vegans." People can choose whatever they want to eat. It's the folks that tell me how disgusting they think my choice is that I have issues with. It would be the same as if I called what you do disgusting. Now I hope the teasing doesn't put you off, because it is just that, but I am 100% behind personal choice!