I would like to *clone* a commercially produced soap

[SkinTripper]

Greetings folks!

I'm here because I'd like input on "cloning" a soap bar that I have fallen in love with, to hopefully save money on it.

The bar is Mountain Ocean's "Skin Trip Soap", and the ingredients seem pretty straight forward, but this soap is like nothing I've ever seen or used before... It's truly a special product. The feel and LATHER it produces are heavenly...this soap has gotten me interested in checking out "higher quality natural soaps", but so far I'm not really finding anything that lathers like this, or leaves me feeling as clean & moisturized.
The soap also uses up very fast and is somewhat expensive at $5+ per 4.5oz bar.

Ingredients are listed below, but can any experts chime in on:
- potential ratios for ingredients
- reasons why this soap might stand out in terms of so many others, especially Re: AMAZING lather and moisturizing
-other soaps options like this that might hit a lower price point

If you haven't checked out Skin Trip, I can't recommend it highly enough... just hoping I can make large batches my own.

Thank you in advance for any advice!

From the website:

Ingredients

Coconut Oil – An excellent moisturizer that helps keep connective tissues strong and supple. The benefits of coconut oil can be attributed to the presence of lauric acid, capric acid and capryllic acid, and its antimicrobial, antioxidant, antifungal, antibacterial and soothing properties. Its benefits are comparable to those of mineral oil, but without any adverse side effects. Coconut oil helps prevent premature aging of the skin and helps treat many skin problems such as psoriasis, dermatitis, eczema and other skin infections.

Olive Oil – Natural oil used as an emollient in soaps, cleansers and shampoos due to its copious, small bubble lather.

Palm Oil – Used as surfactant, emulsifier and texturizer in shampoos, shaving soaps and creams. We only purchase our palm oils from legitimate, established companies. Additionally, in order to be certain of engaging only in environmentally friendly business practices, we have implemented a company policy to purchase only from suppliers that are members of Roundtable on Sustainable Palm Oil (www.rspo.org) and subscribe to their goals.

Vegetable Glycerin – Derived from Palm oil, vegetable glycerin is a humectant, mild emulsifier, emollient and moisturizer.

Purified Water – Deionized water that has been boiled to insure that there is no microbial contamination.

Aloe Vera – Nature’s gift to the skin, aloe vera has been used for centuries as a soothing and healing aid.

Sorbitol – Derived from fruit, sorbitol works as a stabilizer and gives a lubricious feel to the lotion.

Fragrance – A light scent of coconut.

 

[shunt2011]

Hello and welcome. It looks like it may be MP soap not CP or HP.

 

[SkinTripper]

Hello and welcome. It looks like it may be MP soap not CP or HP.

Hello!
Melt & Pour? I'm not sure I understand...so what you think is they might use a MP glycerine base and just dump the rest of the ingredients in and melt it together?

 

[lsg]

No, M&P can be made from the ingredients you listed.

 

[Lin19687]

Google MP soap or Melt & Pour soaps. All your questions will be answered.

If you are looking to make CP or HP soap. I would look into you tube. It's not very easy and certainly not cheap

 

[NsMar42111]

$5 for a 4.5 oz bar is not expensive for handmade soap....that's average if not low. It doesn't last long *because* it lathers so well-all that lather is soap! Just like 100% coconut oil soap lathers awesomely but doesn't last long, same idea.

I'm also voting for it being MP soap because of the sorbitol and glycerin.

Tad bit suspicious of this statement though : "Our signature coconut fragrance was originally derived from an essential perfume oil"...is it an essential oil or perfume?! Has to be FO because I've never seen an essential coconut scent!

 

[Obsidian]

Its hard to tell what kind of soap it is. If its m&p, it not labeled correctly but it seems more like cp to me that just has extra glycerin added.
You can add sorbitol to cp for lather and emollient properties.

OP, just for comparison, pick up a bar of kirks castile. You should be able to find it at any grocery store with the other bath soaps. Its 100% coconut and lathers well. I used to use it a lot before making my own soap and its cheap.

 

[DeeAnna]

Here's what's in the soap itself without all the hype --

This just looks like a poorly written ingredients list for a typical lye-based soap with added glycerin and sorbitol. The Lather Lovers Swap tested sorbitol as a lather enhancer, so this additive doesn't automatically mean the soap is M&P -- it could just as easily be a regular lye soap with sorbitol as an additive.

First quirky thing that jumps out at me is there's no listing for sodium hydroxide (NaOH). How can a soap be soap with just fats and no lye? IMO, the water and/or aloe should also be higher on the list than they are.

Source: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0001AF6QM/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[cmzaha]

I made two soaps last night with sorbitol powder one at 1.1% and one at 2%. Will see how the lather goes

 

[Lin19687]

I call FISH, after now just looking for the ingredients, as @DeeAnna pointed, there is no Lye listed.

So no matter what, the ingredients list is not accurate and makes you wonder what is really in it.

 

[DeeAnna]

The maker is appealing to the "natural" crowd, so I suspect they intentionally didn't list the NaOH. We've had inquiries here from people who to do the same thing and are hoping the rest of us will tell them it's okay to do that -- they want to list all their amazing oils on the ingredients list, but don't want to list that pesky lye for fear of offending or alarming someone. Or they want to do the "saponified oils of ..." thing as another work-around that avoids the need to include NaOH on the ingredients list.

Honestly, the only thing that is unusual about this soap is the use of sorbitol. Other than that, it looks to me to be a basic "holy trinity" type of soap. Nothing especially amazing, IMO.

@SkinTripper -- Why don't you introduce yourself in the Intro Forum and tell us a little about your soap making background? It would be nice to know more about you!

 

[user 24326]

My ingredients labels start with "Soap (made from recycled vegetable oil, lye, and water), ..."
Yes, I know there is more water than NaOH, but my reasoning is that the oil and lye are the primary reactants.
Anyway, I think that is the most truthful way to say they're getting soap, not oil and lye.

 

[steffamarie]

Well, when people buy bread they’re not getting eggs and flour but those are listed as ingredients because they are the constituents used to make that product. Heat changes the molecular structure during baking just like saponification changes oils and lye to soap. It’s up to you whether you want to list reactants or products on your label but to be truthful you’d have to list things like glycerin - a by-product of soaping - but you would have to do a lot of figuring to know how much actually was produced.

 

[Lin19687]

@2buck Not sure if that is all you list, but if it is then that is misleading . Not sure what the .... in your " represents more ingredients or just wording.
most people want to know what oils are used.

 

[user 24326]

@2buck Not sure if that is all you list, but if it is then that is misleading . Not sure what the .... in your " represents more ingredients or just wording.
most people want to know what oils are used.

OF COURSE I LIST ALL THE INGREDIENTS! In this example, the label continues with shea butter, beer malt, and lavender fragrance. We ALWAYS list the ingredients. In our flyers and ebay listings, we tell that we do not remove the glycerin, so our customers can infer that our soap has that, too.

 

[DeeAnna]

In the US, you don't have to provide an ingredients list at all if you are selling soap as the product is defined by the FDA.

If you choose to provide an ingredients list, even if your soap is just soap as defined by the FDA, then the ingredients list should be per the FDA rules, because that's the norm for consumer products and that's what consumers expect. The list should show common names with INCI names as optional secondary information (again, this is US rules only). ALL ingredients listed in order of weight, from most to least. You can take the "what goes into the pot" method of creating an ingredients list OR you can do the "what's in the soap after saponification" method. Either one or the other is acceptable, but you cannot pick and choose.

The common name for the alkali used to make soap is sodium hydroxide or potassium hydroxide. It is not "lye" because this word can mean NaOH, KOH, or any other alkali used to make soap and the water required to make the lye solution.

And fats are not just vegetable oil -- the fats should be specifically called out. If you use peanut oil, for example, but call it vegetable oil on the ingred list, this puts people at risk who may be allergic.

The FDA has a very good section on its website about ingredients lists for cosmetic products and how to properly label your product. Also Marie Gale has a book and website resources on this same topic.

 

[Lin19687]

My ingredients labels start with "Soap (made from recycled vegetable oil, lye, and water), ..."
Yes, I know there is more water than NaOH, but my reasoning is that the oil and lye are the primary reactants.
Anyway, I think that is the most truthful way to say they're getting soap, not oil and lye.

OF COURSE I LIST ALL THE INGREDIENTS! In this example, the label continues with shea butter, beer malt, and lavender fragrance. We ALWAYS list the ingredients. In our flyers and ebay listings, we tell that we do not remove the glycerin, so our customers can infer that our soap has that, too.

Was not being snotty, was just pointing out what you wrote, that it is misleading if written like that as what you put in " ( ) " And since you put it in quotes I commonly assumed that That is what you had on your label. And that is why I said I didn't know what the ... was after. Thank you for yelling the clarification.

 

[LilyJo]

If you look at the mountain view website they say the soap is glycerin based which makes me think it probbaly is maelt and pour.

Oh and just in case for any newbies in the back - if you sell soap in the EU you have to list the ingredients in an agreed format using INCI names and in the list provided by your assessor. Have checked my approved labels etc and none include lye or sodium hyroxide, just the sapanified ingredients.

 

[KimT2au]

My ingredients labels start with "Soap (made from recycled vegetable oil, lye, and water), ..."
.

Hi @2buck, I am very curious about your recycled vegetable oil. If it is not a trade secret, I would be really interested to know how you recycle it. Sorry if the question is too impertinent, if it is, put it down to my being Australia

 

[user 24326]

Hi @2buck, I am very curious about your recycled vegetable oil. If it is not a trade secret, I would be really interested to know how you recycle it.

It's no secret. I get the oil in the plastic cubes from the restaurant and let them settle. A week is probably enough. Then I carefully decant the oil into a 5 gallon pot, stopping just before the crud comes out. I heat the oil to 70C, and then filter it through a series of strainers, down to 25 microns. After cooling, I put the oil into a clean plastic cube and it waits some more. A small amount of very fine sediment will settle out and stick to the bottom. Now the oil is clear and clean. Sometimes if I go a few grams over in a batch, I will use a spoon to remove the extra oil and taste it. It is always clean with no flavor.

What about germs? The oil comes from the restaurant as "food grade", obviously. There is no visible moisture. There may be food proteins; can't do anything about that, except removing the particles by settling and straining. If anyone asks, I suggest anyone with food allergies should know we don't know what might have been in the fryer. The reaction with lye should kill off whatever germs might have been in the oil, but I doubt that there were any in the first place. And if some did manage to survive, well they are now embedded in a germ's enemy -- soap.

Our angle is "eco-friendly" soap. It's not great soap. We have no control over the soy/canola/corn/whatever. But it's good soap.