I just can't Swirl!

[Deborah Long]

LOL
Okay, so I've tried 5 - count them five - times to do this stupid swirl with the lazy suzan thingy. At first I stick blended past emulsion. Then I just couldn't figure out what was making my batter thicken so quickly. After all, it looks SOOOOOOO easy in the videos!

But, as I was washing up my latest disaster (it will still be soap, and smell great, and all that, just doesn't look REMOTELY what I wanted it look like), I think the light bulb went off in my brain.

I usually use a water discount which works perfectly fine for everything else, BUT maybe I need to use full water when I need a thinner batter! Am I right? Is this the secret that I've missed?

I appreciate all the help that I've gotten on this forum and anticipate it will help me for many years...

 

[Cellador]

I do increase my water amount a bit if I'm doing a tricky/multiple color swirl. It's not the only factor but it can help.

 

[ibct1969]

I have been there!!! I tried to do that lazy susan thing too and was only sort of successful after the third batch. I don't even want to think about my first one it was hideous and I cried! Way too advanced for the newbie I was at the time. I think soaping on the cooler side, using a well behaved FO, using full water, and slow moving oils finally helped me swirl better over all. Also, I only stick blend a bit until I have separated my batter- I add the colors and FO (or no fragrance), THEN stick blend to light trace but only in short bursts. You'll get there

 

[Deborah Long]

@ibct1969 - I was soaping cool, used an FO that the manufacturer said was very well behaved in CP, used slow moving oils, but discounted my water. I didn't stick blend after emulsion, just used a spatula for the colors. Thanks for the encouragement! I am sure I'll get it! lol And, in the meantime, I'm making some ugly soaps that smell terrific! lol

 

[dibbles]

What oils were you using? I usually use lard, 30% lye concentration, reduce my castor to 2-3%, and soap cool. The FO can make a difference - depending on the supplier, I think the FOs are tested using a high percentage of liquid oils. If reviews by users are posted, I will read through them to get a better idea of ricing/acceleration issues. And, of course - the Fragrance Oil Review Board here is very helpful if the FO is listed.

The spin swirl can be tricky - keep trying and you'll get it.

 

[KiwiMoose]

So let me just ask this once again, because I still don't get this:
More water = less superfat?
If not, then how do I achieve more water when using soap calc?

 

[DeeAnna]

So let me just ask this once again, because I still don't get this:
More water = less superfat?
If not, then how do I achieve more water when using soap calc?

Nope, more water is more water. It has nothing to do with more or less superfat.

Set your superfat with the "lye discount" or superfat setting, depending on the name your calc gives it .

Set the amount of water using one of the following -- the "water as % of oils" or lye concentration or water:lye ratio setting.

I recommend using either one of the last two settings. They mean the same thing, just look different.

 

[shunt2011]

So let me just ask this once again, because I still don't get this:
More water = less superfat?
If not, then how do I achieve more water when using soap calc?

No, it doesn't affect your SF at all. It only affects the lye concentration. Whatever you set your SF to it will remain. It's based on the amount of lye needed not water.

 

[lucycat]

Have you thought about video's having a different soap oil recipe than yours? My favorite soap recipe has 60% hard oils but for me that is a faster and thicker trace. I see some videos with a 20% coconut and 80% olive. If you use 80% liquid oils to begin with then the soap soap batter can be more fluid and that much olive oil will mean slower trace. I actually wonder if the soapers who are mostly artists aren't picking a recipe where the fluid nature of the batter is their number one requirement. So, not being able to do a swirl like that in a video may have nothing to do with your ability/technique.

 

[Deborah Long]

@lucycat - I actually *have* been thinking about that. The recipe I used yesterday was 80% OO, 15% Coconut oil and 5%Castor, but I think that maybe the Coconut may have had a little to do with it. I think my main issue, however, is water discounting.
The next time I try it (and yes, I will try again!) I will use maybe more Canola than any one other thing but will not discount water and use a 3:1 instead of my usual 2:1 to see how that goes...
Thanks for your advice!

 

[KiwiMoose]

 

[Donee']

bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
love it - will make me giggle endlessly

 

[KiwiMoose]

@lucycat - I actually *have* been thinking about that. The recipe I used yesterday was 80% OO, 15% Coconut oil and 5%Castor, but I think that maybe the Coconut may have had a little to do with it. I think my main issue, however, is water discounting.
The next time I try it (and yes, I will try again!) I will use maybe more Canola than any one other thing but will not discount water and use a 3:1 instead of my usual 2:1 to see how that goes...
Thanks for your advice!

Don't quote me, but have you thought about trying even just 2.7:1 rather than skipping such a huge amount from what you usually use? That should make quite big difference. I'm not sure I will ever be able to do a lazy susan swirl with the oils I'm using - maybe be as @lucycat says - you either make soap to use, or you make soap to look good and they are two different animals?

 

[Deborah Long]

@KiwiMoose Laughed at the video - too funny! I guess I don't see why they can't be both beautiful and usable... At this point, it's all 'my soap experiment' and just too much fun not to try! There are some things in M&P that I've tried, succeeded at and won't ever do again, and this may well be one like that - but I first must succeed! lol

 

[shunt2011]

@KiwiMoose I disagree with your statement that you make soap to use or soap to look good. You can do both. I like to make pretty soap but also use it and have a great following. Don't underestimate yourself. You can get both with some practice.

 

[KiwiMoose]

@KiwiMoose I disagree with your statement that you make soap to use or soap to look good. You can do both. I like to make pretty soap but also use it and have a great following. Don't underestimate yourself. You can get both with some practice.

I probably didn't mean it to be quite such a firm dichotomy there - more that the qualities I prefer in a soap would be more likely found in something that I haven't 'tweaked' the recipe for in order to do lots of swirls. But I shall persist in my attempts - don't you worry about that!

 

[zanzalawi]

this is a recipe i used for a challenge when i needed a lot of time to work with the batter without it thickening
i really was more concerned with it being slow moving and not so much with what it would feel like after the challenge- i was very pleasantly surprised after the challenge to find that i really loved the soaps the cleansing and bubbly values in soap calc are very low, but i think those numbers were rather deceptive compared to how the bars actually performed.
2% sf
2:1 water:lye
75% lard
20% rice bran oil
5% coconut oil

also you might want to take into consideration the additives- what you are using to color your soap for your swirls- purples and blues tend to thicken up soap, as does activated charcoal

 

[KiwiMoose]

Oh! Charcoal does?

 

[SaltedFig]

I got side-tracked yesterday, watching foreign soap video's (again ), and one of them was for a very fine design, using a bit of soy wax and a pre-made 45% lye solution, poured over frozen milk ... so that recipe wasn't all soft oils, but the temperature probably stayed quite low for a while because of the frozen milk and the pre-made lye solution. They used a whisk for most of the mixing too.

Maybe try cooler than room temperature, and mostly switch to a whisk?

 

[Deborah Long]

@SaltedFig Thanks! I can do cooler than room temp... I'm addicted to my stick blender, though! lol I suppose I can whisk after emulsion, however...