Hybrid bars

[atiz]

I didn't want to hijack the Solid Dish Detergent thread even more, but the idea that came up there sounds intriguing to me. Has anyone experimented much with hybrid soap bars -- lye based soaps that contain synthetic detergents? What was your experience? Is it worth it at all? -- E.g., is the resulting soap more gentle / more bubbly / ... because of the syndets?
@IrishLass posted a video in the other thread where someone did an experiment; but he only used 10% of the syndets and there was no follow-up after the full cure. So I'm just curious.

 

[Dawni]

I've used one some time before but I can't remember much difference in anything else other than the bubbles, compared to any "pure" lye based soap I used at the same time. Granted, most of the ingredients were totally different, but still.

It was a lye based soap that had added cocamidopropyl betaine if I remember correctly, and maybe something else I've forgotten lol, and it lathered quite a lot with big(ish) bubbles.

Sorry I don't think that helped much lol

 

[atiz]

I've used one some time before but I can't remember much difference in anything else other than the bubbles, compared to any "pure" lye based soap I used at the same time. Granted, most of the ingredients were totally different, but still.

It was a lye based soap that had added cocamidopropyl betaine if I remember correctly, and maybe something else I've forgotten lol, and it lathered quite a lot with big(ish) bubbles.

Sorry I don't think that helped much lol

Thanks @Dawni , it does help -- I like bubbles so this sounds nice. I have some coco betaine so maybe I can try some.

 

[jcandleattic]

The only hybrid soap I've ever made is a layered cp/mp/cp bar. Cured out fine, but when using the middle mp part dissolved away a little faster so in the end I had 2 small slivers of cp to use up.

Probably not at all what you are talking about, but I didn't read the dish detergent thread.

 

[IrishLass]

Besides Saranac who posted this post in the solid dish detergent thread about their hybrid soap being a favorite of theirs to use, Obsidian has made hybrid detergent/CP soap before, too, and it's been on my list of things to try for a few years now....I just haven't gotten around to it yet. Here's the thread where Obsidian brought the subject up and talks about her experience making and using it: https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/sodium-lauryl-sulfoacetate-in-cp.45646/

I still have my SLSA on hand that I bought some years ago for the express purpose of trying it out on a 100% Castile batch, and now that I have a couple of other different surfactants on hand from making Humblebee & Me's solid dishwashing detergent, I just might finally give it a go.

These are the surfactants I have on hand:

SLSA powder
SCS (Sodium Coco Sulfate) needles/noodles
Cocamidopropyl betaine
Sodium C14-16 Olefin Sulfonate (Bio-Terge AS40)

...although, since reading Saranac's post in the solid dish detergent thread, I'm thinking of purchasing some SCI powder.


IrishLass

 

[IrishLass]

The only hybrid soap I've ever made is a layered cp/mp/cp bar. Cured out fine, but when using the middle mp part dissolved away a little faster so in the end I had 2 small slivers of cp to use up.

Probably not at all what you are talking about, but I didn't read the dish detergent thread.

Nope- totally different thing- what we're talking about is adding a surfactant to a CP batch.


IrishLass

 

[atiz]

Besides Saranac who posted this post in the solid dish detergent thread about their hybrid soap being a favorite of theirs to use, Obsidian has made hybrid detergent/CP soap before, too, and it's been on my list of things to try for a few years now....I just haven't gotten around to it yet. Here's the thread where Obsidian brought the subject up and talks about her experience making and using it: https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/sodium-lauryl-sulfoacetate-in-cp.45646/

I still have my SLSA on hand that I bought some years ago for the express purpose of trying it out on a 100% Castile batch, and now that I have a couple of other different surfactants on hand from making Humblebee & Me's solid dishwashing detergent, I just might finally give it a go.

These are the surfactants I have on hand:

SLSA powder
SCS (Sodium Coco Sulfate) needles/noodles
Cocamidopropyl betaine
Sodium C14-16 Olefin Sulfonate (Bio-Terge AS40)

...although, since reading Saranac's post in the solid dish detergent thread, I'm thinking of purchasing some SCI powder.


IrishLass

Oh that thread is really interesting too, thank you.

I don't have SLSA but have SCS, SCI, Decyl glucoside, Coco betaine, Coco glucoside, Cprylyl glucoside, Bioterge.... Maybe I'll try some coco betaine in the next soap.
I'm wondering if the charge of the surfactant would make any difference? And if you use a relatively low-pH one, will that bring down the pH of your soap as well? (I would guess no for the latter, but I don't understand chemistry this much...).
So it sounds like 3--10% tends to be the usage rate.

 

[reeeen4]

I'd love to know what the ph was of a hybrid bar. I've been thinking about trying this out. Has anyone tested the ph on one?

 

[Obsidian]

Man, thats was quite awhile ago, before I knew how to formulate a decent bar of soap lol.
I still have my slsa, I should try using some again with high lard recipe. It has nice enough creamy lather but big bubbles would be a great addition.
Might try dissolving it in water first though, see if its feasible.

 

[reeeen4]

Wonder if it would work with rebatch soap.

 

[Saranac]

@IrishLass posted a video in the other thread where someone did an experiment; but he only used 10% of the syndets and there was no follow-up after the full cure. So I'm just curious.

I'm sorry that I missed this thread.

I find my hybrid bar with SCI to be more bubbly than one without. Additionally, I have hard water here, and I find it rinses better, and leaves my skin feeling less squeaky after rinsing. I don't think soap needs a lot of SCI; I think of it as a lather-aiding ingredient.

Lest someone think the extra bubbles are all in my head, my first hybrid bar was 95% shea butter* and 5% SCI (55% ASM), and believe it or not, it lathers nicely. Granted, it's incredibly draggy and takes a bit to get going, but it's a hard bar that is usable. YMMV.

As for cocamidopropyl betaine. I've tried a number of times to incorporate this stuff into soap. My first attempt (with liquid soap) is outlined HERE (posts 13 and 15), but the short of it is that there's a reaction that occurs to (my?) cocamidopropyl betaine due to (I think) the pH; it smells . . . bad. My second was just last week; my goal for making hybrid bars is to (almost) dupe the Dove bar, so I attempted to add Cocamidopropyl betaine to my NaOH solution, but it stunk . . . bad. There's always a possibility that it would cure out, but I didn't want to take the chance and ruin my SCI, and my small sample of Dove fragrance.

I haven't tried Sodium Lauryl Sulfoacetate (SLSa) in bars yet, but it's fantastic in liquid soap. I use a small amount to thicken my sunflower/castor (no-coconut) shower gel, and it brings a lot of great lather and makes the thickest liquid soap I have ever used!

I'd love to know what the ph was of a hybrid bar. I've been thinking about trying this out. Has anyone tested the ph on one?

I haven't checked; it's zap-free, so I don't bother.


*It was past it's prime, and I was tired of looking at it!

 

[Milagrito]

[QUOTE = "reeeen4, post: 770940, miembro: 31348"] Me encantaría saber cuál fue el ph de una barra híbrida. He estado pensando en probar esto. ¿Alguien ha probado el ph en uno? [/ QUOTE]

I make my soap shampoo and for some time I am adding 10% of SCI, the pH remains the same (8), the bubbles have some increase (although my shampoo was already quite sparkling), I notice an increase in cleanliness and the hair is a bit brighter