HP Pine Tar added at the end?

[Nicolesica]

Haha… I confused myself, too. Sometimes I overthink things and hurt myself. Lol

 

[AliOop]

Haha… I confused myself, too. Sometimes I overthink things and hurt myself. Lol

I have NO idea what you mean by that. None.

 

[contrinokathy]

I think I was too eager and added the pine tar before the soap had completed saponification. I’ve not done HP before, so this has been an awesome learning experience.
So, I added yesterdays batch to the crock pot, accounting for the amount of lye PT uses up from an HP recipe o found online and then re-made another batch and mixed it all together. So, basically doubled the recipe.
Melted everything, added the lye and SB’ed until it got too thick to SB anymore.
Currently I have it covered in the crockpot (no heat on—like in her video) and it is the consistency of thick caramel. It doesn’t look like the lady’s batch on the video, though—it’s much smoother and doesn’t have the separated looking bits.
I’m hoping it will harden up like in her video and then I’ll add the pine tar again. If not, I don’t what I’ll do next to try and save it.
I really hope I didn’t fudge this—after the EO’s are added and it mellows out some, I’m really loving the smell of it.

I do HP all the time and have added pine rosin powder at the end of the cook with no problems.
Separation happens all the time when the soap is cooked at a high temp for the oils and butters. I just blend until it cools.
I personally prefer to use powders (honey, aloe Vera, pine rosin, colloid oatmeal) in the oils or after the cook.

 

[Nicolesica]

I do HP all the time and have added pine rosin powder at the end of the cook with no problems.
Separation happens all the time when the soap is cooked at a high temp for the oils and butters. I just blend until it cools.
I personally prefer to use powders (honey, aloe Vera, pine rosin, colloid oatmeal) in the oils or after the cook.

Thank you for that. Haven’t had the courage to look at it this morning. Lol
I don’t know about the pine tar powder. I use powdered goats milk or buttermilk all the time, but pine tar powder is new to me !

 

[contrinokathy]

Thank you for that. Haven’t had the courage to look at it this morning. Lol
I don’t know about the pine tar powder. I use powdered goats milk or buttermilk all the time, but pine tar powder is new to me !

I found it on Etsy as pine rosin powder. I have blended it before I added the lye and at the end. Either way it makes a lovely bar. I don’t have too many problems with the powders

 

[Whillow]

The first video looks delicious. Just me being hungry right now I think. You are brave to try this and I have always wanted to do Pine Tar soap. Now I'm not sure. However I am too chicken to do hot process. I am also stubborn and can totally relate to it taking all day. Good luck and be sure to post updates from today as well.

 

[DeeAnna]

P

I found it on Etsy as pine rosin powder....

Rosin (colophony) is not the same thing as pine tar.

Rosin is made from conifer sap that's collected a lot like maple sap is collected. The sap is boiled down, the gases that evaporate from the sap are condensed back into liquid form to make turpentine. The sticky goo that's left after the boiling is complete is the rosin.

Pine tar is made from heating solid pine wood in the absence of oxygen (a process called pyrolysis). The wood used is often the waste -- roots and offcuts -- from the timber industry.

I doubt pine tar can be powdered since it's not a solid material. I know for sure rosin (colophony) is a solid and can be crushed into powder.

Rosin adds detergency (cleaning power) to soap if the rosin is fully melted before making the soap so it can react with the lye. I don't know if solid, unmelted rosin will react properly with the lye -- never tried that. If you don't get a definite case of overheating when making soap with solid rosin, I suspect the rosin does not react much if at all. Using melted rosin in soap is even tougher to deal with than pine tar because rosin reacts fast with lye and the soap batter usually gets really hot-- it's easy to get a volcano when soaping with melted rosin.

 

[Tam3098]

Question—I was talking the other day with an elderly lady who says she never used to account for the lye in pine tar soap because she added the pine tar at the end of the cook.

So I looked it up and can only find this. For those who have made pine tar soap (I have not), does this seem safe to you? I’ve been putting off making pine tar because it seems like such a pain, but this is adding some interest for me. Grandma's Pine Tar 10-Minute Hot Process Soap

Hello,
I have only made PT CP soap, and I mix the pine tar (brickmore) with the same amount of warm oils and add it after trace. I do run it through the soap calc for the lye adjustment. For me I have found adding any FO/EO was a waste because the pine tar scent is so strong, it seems to conquer all the scents I have tried. Also, on a side note, I have had hunters say this soap is great to mask their scent - ? My recipe has 50% coconut oil, so it makes a pretty hard bar, and the longer it cures the better it gets! I found some I made years ago in a box - and it was incredible

 

[cmzaha]

Thank you for that! Yes, as soon as I get some of the stuff off my plate I do believe I’m going to try this out. I hear pine tar soap is good for eczema and psoriasis, so may be useful to a couple people I know.
As always, thank you so much

Please mention doing a small test of the Pine Tar soap to anyone trying it before using it all over the full body. I for one am severely allergic to Pine tar soap although I did make pine tar soaps for a few customers at my markets. Testing inside the elbow is a good place. Pine tar can be a high allergen.

ETA: I made my Pine using CP method, I just worked fast.

 

[Nicolesica]

Please mention doing a small test of the Pine Tar soap to anyone trying it before using it all over the full body. I for one am severely allergic to Pine tar soap although I did make pine tar soaps for a few customers at my markets. Testing inside the elbow is a good place. Pine tar can be a high allergen.

ETA: I made my Pine using CP method, I just worked fast.

Good advice. I don’t sell, so these are for friends or coworkers or whoever wants to try them. But yes—I will definitely make sure to mention the test befaorehand!

 

[Nicolesica]

Update: well it has definitely firmed up, smells great, but is still too soft to unmold. I’m surmising though, that may be a common thing?

 

[Nicolesica]

P

Rosin (colophony) is not the same thing as pine tar.

Rosin is made from conifer sap that's collected a lot like maple sap is collected. The sap is boiled down, the gases that evaporate from the sap are condensed back into liquid form to make turpentine. The sticky goo that's left after the boiling is complete is the rosin.

Pine tar is made from heating solid pine wood in the absence of oxygen (a process called pyrolysis). The wood used is often the waste -- roots and offcuts -- from the timber industry.

I doubt pine tar can be powdered since it's not a solid material. I know for sure rosin (colophony) is a solid and can be crushed into powder.

Rosin adds detergency (cleaning power) to soap if the rosin is fully melted before making the soap so it can react with the lye. I don't know if solid, unmelted rosin will react properly with the lye -- never tried that. If you don't get a definite case of overheating when making soap with solid rosin, I suspect the rosin does not react much if at all. Using melted rosin in soap is even tougher to deal with than pine tar because rosin reacts fast with lye and the soap batter usually gets really hot-- it's easy to get a volcano when soaping with melted rosin.

@DeeAnna honestly I could listen to you all day. All the facts I know are pretty much useless, but I learn so much for your posts. Thank you!

 

[cmzaha]

I will mention that my cp pine tar soaps were never soft.

 

[DeeAnna]

The pine tar soap I make (several batches per year) is slightly less hard compared to the same soap recipe without the pine tar, but the soap isn't gooey soft. It's just somewhat less firm. I can still unmold and cut the loaf of soap on my regular schedule.

I realize a 50% coconut recipe will be physically hard, but it won't last as long as one might like because the soap is high in myristic and lauric fatty acids which are highly water soluble.. To get a longer lasting AND firmer soap, the recipe should be rich in fats high in palmitic and stearic fatty acids -- tallow, palm, lard.

 

[Nicolesica]

The pine tar soap I make (several batches per year) is slightly less hard compared to the same soap recipe without the pine tar, but the soap isn't gooey soft. It's just somewhat less firm. I can still unmold and cut the loaf of soap on my regular schedule.

I realize a 50% coconut recipe will be physically hard, but it won't last as long as one might like because the soap is high in myristic and lauric fatty acids which are highly water soluble.. To get a longer lasting AND firmer soap, the recipe should be rich in fats high in palmitic and stearic fatty acids -- tallow, palm, lard.

Sigh. It’s not gooey, per se, but is definitely too soft to unmold and cut.

 

[Nicolesica]

So after all that drama, the soap hardened up nicely. The smell has definitely faded but still smells wonderful. I love them!

 

[Whillow]

So after all that drama, the soap hardened up nicely. The smell has definitely faded but still smells wonderful. I love them!

At what point were you able to unmold it?

 

[Nicolesica]

At what point were you able to unmold it?

Well, we had a family emergency, so it was in the mold when I left for over a week. I couldn’t really say when the best time to unmold it was, but it was almost to the point where I couldn’t cut it with my cutter by the time I got to it. Next time I’ll unmold much sooner.

 

[Whillow]

Well, we had a family emergency, so it was in the mold when I left for over a week. I couldn’t really say when the best time to unmold it was, but it was almost to the point where I couldn’t cut it with my cutter by the time I got to it. Next time I’ll unmold much sooner.

Sorry about your family emergency. I am still on the fence about trying this type of soap. Thanks for sharing and the soap is beautiful. I love the natural colour.

 

[Nicolesica]

Sorry about your family emergency. I am still on the fence about trying this type of soap. Thanks for sharing and the soap is beautiful. I love the natural colour.

Honestly, I just fussed over it and over-thought it way too much. I’m doing it again soon because I love the smell and because although it looks rustic it doesn’t have that chunky look of some HP soaps. I have a feeling this is way easier now that I know what to expect and will become a family staple.