How many millilitres (ml) is 1 lb?

[Rune]

Hi!

I struggle with the american system of weight and/or volume. I look at fragrance oils from Aztek International (candlemaking.com). They, as all the other american sites, use oz and lb. Which, you might know, is like greek or swahili for us europeans.

Oz is fairly easy, I just type for example "8 oz to ml" in Google, and I get to know it is something called a US fluid ounce, and that 8 oz is 236,588237 ml.

But, bigger sizes of fragrance oils use lb, not ounces. So I do the same, type 1 lb to ml in Google. Error! That's not possible. I can convert it to water by using some calculator. But fragrance oils is not water.

So what to do? I write in Google again: 1 lb to kg, and get to know that 1 lb is 0,45359237 kilograms. I know that 1 liter of oil is about 910 grams. That means I can convert weight of oil to volume of oil by multiplying with 0,910.

So, 0,45359237 kilograms is the same as 453,59237 ml (millilitre). But that is water, not oil. I multiply with 0,910 and get 412,77 ml (rounded off). Okey, 1 lb is almost 413 ml.

But. When I convert lb to oz in Google, the picture is different. 1 lb is 16 ounces. So I start at scratch, and type in Google 16 oz to ml. Then I suddenly get 473 ml. A difference at 60 millilitre from the other method!

So now I doubt, is this oz measurement really fluid ounce, or is it another type of ounce? What is it? And what is a fluid ounce? Since everything is made as hard as possible in America, and then turned upside down a few times, maybe a fluid ounce is not even volume?

Since Google can convert oz to ml, I guess they do it more right than I do. So maybe the right way to find out how many millilitres an lb is, is to convert it first to oz, and from oz to ml? But if it is so, why isn't google so smart that they can convert directly from lb to ml?

Maybe I'm so used to our dead easy and logical systems here in Europe that I don't understand American systems that has no logical explanations. 16 ounces in an lb. Why isn't it 10 ounces per lb? Fahrenheit even worse. There is fluid ounces but no fluid lb. That was my first thought, it must be a fluid lb that I have to convert to ml. But no.

I seriously think of buying supplies from Aztek, or maybe another American site (I have not browsed them all, yet). The prices for fragrance oils is about half of european prices, or less. Some, like Aztek, have not too bad shipping prices from US to Norway either. The higher shipping prices from America will be eaten up by lower prices for the goods, depending on how cheap the suppliers are and what they charge in shipping. Some charge extreme shipping costs, like Essential Depot. I guess it comes down to which provider they use for their shipping. But I would anyway like to know how much fragrance oils I get, so I don't get a cold shower when opening the parcel. I got half of what I thought I had ordered, or something like that. And I would like to be able to compare between some European and American suppliers and/or products.

Another question. The oz you use for powders, like mica, is that by weight or volume? I find 1 oz to be 28,35 grams, is that correct?

If 1 oz is 28,35 grams, and 1 US fluid oz is 29,57 grams, something is not very logical somewhere. Here, 28 millilitres is exactly 28 grams of water. That makes sense.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Oz and fluid oz are not necessarily the same thing. I would say if the smaller bottles are oz and the larger ones lb, they are working in pure weight rather than fluid oz.

I work in weight for all of my recipes, so I actually get peeved by the European suppliers talking in volume for things -avocado oil as 5l, as an example, when I need 950g of for my recipe.

If you're adding your fragrance as a % of your oil weight then the ml isn't really needed, except for comparing the prices to companies who do work in ml, of course.

 

[slk]

In the US we have oz for both weight and volume. There are 16 oz in 1 pound (lb) and there are 16 fluid oz in 1 pint. So Google is right in saying you cannot go from lbs to ml as that would be like converting grams to ml. You have to know the density (or specific gravity if forget) to convert.

I would assume that if something is sold by lb it is weight not volume. For micas and powders I would assume weight unless volume is specified, but you could always email the seller to be sure.
"Maybe I'm so used to our dead easy and logical systems here in Europe that I don't understand American systems that has no logical explanations. 16 ounces in an lb. Why isn't it 10 ounces per lb? Fahrenheit even worse. There is fluid ounces but no fluid lb. That was my first thought, it must be a fluid lb that I have to convert to ml. But no. "

This I think we blame on the British The 16 oz to a lb thing - not sure about the Fahrenheit thing.
"If 1 oz is 28,35 grams, and 1 US fluid oz is 29,57 grams, something is not very logical somewhere. Here, 28 millilitres is exactly 28 grams of water. That makes sense."

This I was surprised about. Typed in google and I got the same thing. I always assumed that 1 oz of water would be the same as 1 fl oz of water so not sure if there is truly a difference or if google is not correct (gasp).

Good luck.

 

[Kittish]

Yep, the American system of weights and volumes is pretty screwy. That's why I use metric for making soap. If it just says 'ounce' it's probably a weight measurement, and can be converted to grams easily. Fluid ounces, as others have said, is a different measurement and refers to volume, which is why you were able to get some sort of conversion to mL.

One fluid ounce (volume) is equal to just shy of 30 mL, and one ounce (weight) is a touch over 28 grams.

 

[DeeAnna]

Solids are in ounces or grams. Fluids are measured in fluid ounces or milliliters.

As SLK mentioned, you can't convert milliliters directly to grams any more than you can directly convert (weight) ounces with fluid ounces. In order to convert weight to volume or vice versa, you must know the specific gravity of the material you're working with.

The specific gravity (sp gr) as normally defined is the weight of a given volume of a material, say an oil, divided by the weight of the same volume of water. The key here is the two materials must be measured and defined in a consistent way. You can calculate specific gravity as --

Sp Gr = (weight of material) X (weight of water)

As specific gravity is normally defined, you can use specific gravity to directly convert grams to milliliters or vice versa. And you can use the same specific gravity number to directly convert (weight) ounces to fluid ounces and vice versa. But you cannot use specific gravity to directly convert pounds to and from liters, or grams to and from liters, etc.


To find weight given the volume and specific gravity --

Weight, g = (Specific gravity) X (Volume, mL)

Weight, oz = (Specific gravity) X (Volume, fl oz)


Or to find volume give the weight --

Volume, mL = Weight, g / Sp Gr

Volume, fl oz = Weight, oz / Sp Gr


Specific gravities --

Fats = approximately 0.91
Water = 1
Essential oils = varies from less than 1 to greater than 1
Fragrance oils in my stash = varies from 0.76 to 1

It is easy to disrespect Imperial units (ounces, quarts, pounds, feet, miles, acres, etc) nowadays, but there is a good reason, albeit an old one, for using measurements based on 12 and 16 rather than on units of 10. Back in the day before calculators and computers, the easy divisibility of Imperial units by a variety of whole numbers was a great boon to the common people and commerce. Twelve inches in a foot is divisible by 2, 3, 4, and 6, which made measuring and dividing lengths easier for craftsman who made furniture. A yard (36 inches) is divisible by many whole numbers which made tailors' jobs easier too. Sixteen ounces in a pound (or 16 fluid ounces in a pint) made dividing pounds and pints into halves and quarters and eighths a lot easier for grocers and farmers. This easy divisibility isn't as important nowadays, but I can appreciate why it once was.

 

[Dahila]

Metric for everything, when you get ml just weight it and note the weight. This is what I do, Let's say I make bb with 3 cups of *I*** 2 cups of **** I have weighted everything so I still can work around with percentage and weight. I am also from Europe and I get lost in the imperial system

 

[Kittish]

It is easy to disrespect Imperial units (ounces, quarts, pounds, feet, miles, acres, etc) nowadays, but there is a good reason, albeit an old one, for using measurements based on 12 and 16 rather than on units of 10. Back in the day before calculators and computers, the easy divisibility of Imperial units by a variety of whole numbers was a great boon to the common people and commerce. Twelve inches in a foot is divisible by 2, 3, 4, and 6, which made measuring and dividing lengths easier for craftsman who made furniture. A yard (36 inches) is divisible by many whole numbers which made tailors' jobs easier too. Sixteen ounces in a pound (or 16 fluid ounces in a pint) made dividing pounds and pints into halves and quarters and eighths a lot easier for grocers and farmers. This easy divisibility isn't as important nowadays, but I can appreciate why it once was.

This is a big part of why we divide a day in 24 hours and each hour into 60 minutes and each minute into 60 seconds. Each of those increments is easily divisible by a lot of different numbers (2, 3, 4, 6, 8 and 12; 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 10, 12, 15, 20 and 30 respectively). Plus, 24 hours in a day comes close to actually matching the planet's rotation so our clocks don't get out of step very quickly.

 

[Ivanstein]

Fahrenheit was based off of water, ice, and salt mixture (0°), water and ice (32°) and body heat (96°). Why he chose those numbers and substances is anyone's guess. But, he named it, so he got to choose.

Centigrade is based off water.

Kelvin and Rankine off the temperature at which all molecular motion stops.

The British system of measurement was based off of the king and his horse. Which changed from time to time.

Metric system of measurement based off of the distance from the geographic north pole to the equator...through Paris. Divide that by 1,000,000 and you get a meter. Believe it or not, this definition of length changes over time too.

So, why are things measured the way they are?

Well, why did your parents name you what they did. No matter your name, you're still the same person. Even if you have an unfamiliar nick name. Same with physical constants.

Make sense?

 

[Rune]

Thank you all for great answers And I will not disrespect the imperial units anymore, now that I know the reason behind.

Specific gravity, yes, thank you! Now I know how to do it By the way, I calculated in the wrong way by using 0.910. 100 grams of oil is more than 100 ml, not less (as I calculated), since oil is lighter than water. And that was not the only fault. But thanks to you I now have a recipe to follow. That makes it very easy.

I thought fragrance oils would be quite like normal oils. But I actually know that they are mixed up of allsorts of chemicals, dispersed and dilluted in other chemical, so I don't know why I assumed they would have the same specific gravity as regular oils. I have read documentation for fragrance oils, and it was not much olive oil to see there. More like DPG, but it wasn't that either (can't remember) from the company I researched out of curiosity.

If I have understood correctly, is it so that fragrance oils in the US for smaller amounts are given in fluid ounces, but for bigger amounts it switches over to weight (lbs)?

If it is fluid ounces or weight ounces, that are never given, as I have heard. That is confusing for a foreigner. Especially when you hear someone on Youtube say they used "2 ounces of fragrance per pound of oil", for example. And you try to calculate that out, just to understand what they are talking about. Fluids should be measured in fluid ounces, that I understand now, but since the soaping oils are measured in weight, what about the 2 ounces of fragrance then? Maybe some measure that in fluids, other in weight. And maybe it isn't very important either. I know it isn't important, because it depends on the fragrance, where you have bought it, in which strenght (if available), what you are making (hp or cp), soaping temperature, additives and so on.

Oh! I suddenly came to think of something. DeeAnna, the Imperial units are used in Norway (or whole of Europe, don't know) in the hardware industry, or what to call it. Carpenters have to know that system. And when you go to hardware stores to buy wooden things to restore or build houses, you know what I mean. Then it is alway in inches. 2"4 is a size for that lumber thing, I have heard.

So why are they using that system? I have no idea, but it must be as you said, it is easier to calculate. So it must be more convenient for that type of industry than the metric system. And carpenters can't run around with calculators all the time when they build houses. I'm sure they do their maths the old fashioned way.

 

[Kittish]

If it is fluid ounces or weight ounces, that are never given, as I have heard. That is confusing for a foreigner. Especially when you hear someone on Youtube say they used "2 ounces of fragrance per pound of oil", for example. And you try to calculate that out, just to understand what they are talking about. Fluids should be measured in fluid ounces, that I understand now, but since the soaping oils are measured in weight, what about the 2 ounces of fragrance then? Maybe some measure that in fluids, other in weight. And maybe it isn't very important either. I know it isn't important, because it depends on the fragrance, where you have bought it, in which strenght (if available), what you are making (hp or cp), soaping temperature, additives and so on.

The 'ounces per pound of oils' measurements are usually indicating a weight measure, not volume. Though, when you're only dealing with an ounce or two of fragrance oil, weight and volume are not too different in terms of total amount.

 

[DeeAnna]

"...since the soaping oils are measured in weight, what about the 2 ounces of fragrance then?..."

If everything else is measured by weight ounces, then then the fragrance oils are very likely also measured in weight ounces. But if you have any concern about that, you need to ask the person giving the recipe or doing the video to confirm. I agree that using grams or milliliters is much less confusing.

When units of volume are used in a home situation, people often do not measure in fluid ounces. They instead measure in units of cups, tablespoons, or teaspoons. Two fluid ounces is the same as 1/4th of a cup or 4 tablespoons.

"...carpenters can't run around with calculators all the time when they build houses. I'm sure they do their maths the old fashioned way...."

There are calculators that do math in Imperial units of feet and inches, believe it or not! But you are right -- it's awkward to carry a calculator around when building a house.

 

[Rune]

By the way, I read in Scientific Soapmaking (have just started to read that book), that soapmakers should convert to the metric system. It is more accurate for smaller amounts. He had examples that did show the difference by that measuring lye in ounces and in grams. But it depends on your scale, how accurate it can go.

That one difference is very visible. When I watch soapmakers on Youtube measure out lye in ounces, it is quicker, and not so much finetuning at the end, when you are close to the weight you need. It just pops into place, and voila, done. Quite the opposite as when measuring in grams. Relatively quick as well, but much more finetuning close to the end. So ounces is not accurate enought for lye, unless you have a scale with several digits, according to Kevin Dunn.

I guess the accuracy is not that important if you superfat more than the recommended 2% for safety anyway.

I have to continue reading that book. I'm sure it will be more interesting than I feel it is at the moment. I was just annoyed by pages after pages with things that was strange. And Kevin Dunn also invented his own measuring system. Duck, or what he called it. I just jumped straight over that pages. It is hard enough with imperial an metric as it is. And what is the point? I'm sure he writes exactly what the point is. But I'm well past that duck pages now, and I won't go back to find out what it is. I find that book sort of strange. Maybe mostly because it was not what I thought it would be. But I'm sure it improves when you get past the beginning. I must titrate an oil anyway, and that is supposed to be there somewhere.

 

[bathgeek]

In the Soap world, don’t think that when you see ounces it means fluid ounces. The ounce is an actual measure of weight. 16 ounces equals a pound. I purchased in pounds, but usually soap in grams.

 

[Rune]

I think I have to start using the Imperial units, so that I get familiar with it. Plus the Fahrenheit scale. Because, I do watch Youtube a lot, and especially soapmaking videos. 99% of them or more are from America. I have no clue how much of this and that they use, other than what I can visually see. And I have now clue how hot or cold things are. Each time I wonder, I have to google to find out. It would be so much easier to be familiar with it once and for all.

When I see european soapmaking videos, I of course know exactly what they are talking about, and I feel I get more information since I don't just jump over so much information that might be good to know (because I don't bother to google everything).

So that is what I'm gonna do, start using and get familiar with ounces, pounds, inches and fahrenheit. SoapCalc makes it easy, I can experiment with ounces and get it automatically converted to grams, so that I can check where I am. My digital thermometer has both fahrenheit and celsius. I will use fahrenheit and double check where I am with celsius.

It is one thing though I find very easy, and that is cups. I desided to bake something one day, and found a recipe online in cups. I converted it to deciliter. Then I measured out that amount in deciliter and ran around the house to find something that it would fit in, so that i didn't have to measure out in deciliter every time I needed 1 cup. I found a plastic cup (travel coffee cup or what it is), that had a rim inside. 1 cup was exactly to that rim. So now I know that 1 cup is over something over 2 deciliter, and I can visualize my plastic cup. So that I'm familiar with. So baking with cups is no problem.

I also know that 200 fahrenheit is almost 100 celsius. I know that because I have googled numbers around 200 F to C (the shortening you use in Google) a ton of times, because I could never remember from time to time. It is the temperature of the oils for high temperature hot process. Well, 200 is a little high. It will be very fast. I did that, had something over 90 degree celsius (around 200 F), and it did go superfast! So I will go a little colder next time, so that I have a tiny bit more time to think. But not very much colder either. Now that I know what not to do so that it doesn't suddenly harden up on me.
I have seen almost all of Crystal's HP videos, from C-Light and Candles, if I remember the name of her Youtube channel right. She does some great fast hot process videos. I have learned so much from her.

So now, I will start making some HP. I will get a crockpot in Christmas present. I don't have that (it's not a common thing to have around here), so I have used a casserole, or pan (I don't know what you call it). It is not ideal, because it cools the soap down to fast. And it is not safe either, having to heat up oil on the stove (potentially forget them and set the house on fire), and then carry hot oils from the stove to the bench. So a crockpot is the way to go, I guess. If I only could quick deside on a supplier. Lost in research, that is me in a nutshell. But I'll figure it out. If they have too much, I want almost everything and the cart gets too full so that the shipping gets too expensive, if not to mention the total price for the products. Then I can't decide on what to keep and what to throw out of the cart. If the supplier has to litte, then I won't find everything I need, but have a nice cart with an affordable amount. But instead of just buying that and forget about the few things that they don't have but i feel I need, I continue the search for other suppliers, and end up with dozens of full carts everywhere and a huge decicion problem. It is always like that, whatever I need to buy.

 

[bathgeek]

I’m a transplant who had to learn the imperial system too. Don’t think too hard about it, just convert as you need to (hooray for smartphones!).

One thing I feel I need to emphasize is to NOT use volumetric measurements (liter, cup, etc.) Those are just not as exact as grams and ounces, which are weight measurements. Especially when measuring lye, a TINY difference in grams can mean the difference between 5% superfat vs lye heavy soap.

 

[DeeAnna]

I try to walk the line between both measurement systems, since my training as an engineer included learning how to convert back and forth. I do my best here to give temperatures in Celsius as well as Fahrenheit. Thankfully my recipes are always in grams, and I think a lot of the other US soapers on this forum also use grams. So that's helpful.

Temperature conversion between Fahrenheit (F) and Celsius (C) --

F = (C X 1.8 ) + 32

C = (F - 32 ) / 1.8

 

[randycoxclemson]

About that hardware thing... "board feet" is a totally different measurement than just plain old feet, the length measurement. Because lumber yards (in this case, the 'yard' is the physical grounds, not a unit of measure) originally calculated everything based on the pre-trimmed size of the wood, we end up 2x4 boards measuring 1.5x3.5 inches as a standard.

Next up, grains! (and not the kind associated with wood texture)

 

[LilyJo]

Really odd for me as I grew up pre-decimal (yes that is an indicator of my age!) but whilst at school in the uk we moved to the metric system.

So my childhood was spent learning some in feet inches and pounds and some in metres, grams and litres. Consequently I switch between the two all the time using feet/inches for wood or fabric, grams for soap, pounds and ounces for baking and milimetres for measuring furniture! And I have never been able to kilometres per hour it will always be miles per hour!

 

[BrewerGeorge]

...

It is easy to disrespect Imperial units (ounces, quarts, pounds, feet, miles, acres, etc) nowadays, but there is a good reason, albeit an old one, for using measurements based on 12 and 16 rather than on units of 10. Back in the day before calculators and computers, the easy divisibility of Imperial units by a variety of whole numbers was a great boon to the common people and commerce. Twelve inches in a foot is divisible by 2, 3, 4, and 6, which made measuring and dividing lengths easier for craftsman who made furniture. A yard (36 inches) is divisible by many whole numbers which made tailors' jobs easier too. Sixteen ounces in a pound (or 16 fluid ounces in a pint) made dividing pounds and pints into halves and quarters and eighths a lot easier for grocers and farmers. This easy divisibility isn't as important nowadays, but I can appreciate why it once was.

Best of both worlds is to use a base 12 numbering system. :mrgreen:

So then 10 in that system is 10 (dec) and 100 is 144(dec). There are 20 hours in a day and 50 minutes in an hour. But there are not 1000 minutes in that day 'cause the multiplication tables are different.

Anybody still think Imperial is too confusing now? :twisted:

 

[Kittish]

Best of both worlds is to use a base 12 numbering system. :mrgreen:

So then 10 in that system is 10 (dec) and 100 is 144(dec). There are 20 hours in a day and 50 minutes in an hour. But there are not 1000 minutes in that day 'cause the multiplication tables are different.

Anybody still think Imperial is too confusing now? :twisted:

There are 10 kinds of people in the world...