Help with ZNSC

[Chaiat5]

Hellooo everyone…

So, I have tried but not cracked Zany’s No Slime Castile soap and it is really bugging me. In terms of appearance, they were pretty nice — nothing squishy or runny and firm as well.

BUT: The first batch soaps were just not sudsy at all. I know not to expect lots of bubbles from pure olive soaps, but these barely gave out even a creamy lather.

The second batch was surprisingly a little bubbly, so a little more pleasant to use. Unfortunately, there is a hint of slime. It goes away the more I lather, but it is unmistakably there when I start using the soap. Both soaps were made from pomace and cured for 2 months or so.

I followed the recipe to a T… but I must be doing something wrongly? Are there any … variables? Any advice will be much appreciated.

 

[Ekuzo]

I'm interested. People who tried the recipe say there's no slime and the lather is good, I'm curious if there may be variables and if it still resembles regular OO soap in some cases.

I don't think using pomace would make a difference, their supposed FA profile is almost identical. Let's see what the others have to say

 

[Servant4Christ]

I don't make the Castile version. I use 85 olive, 10 coconut, 5 castor. Mine bubbles fine and is the only recipe I've found (so far) that even my super sensitive face can tolerate after a 2 month cure. I don't use pomace, so maybe that makes a difference.

 

[AliOop]

I don't make the Castile version, either. My Bastille version is 80% OO and 20% CO, PKO or blend thereof, with sorbitol and goat milk powder. While it's not my favorite soap, I find it decent - which is saying a lot, since normally I detest high OO soaps.

If I were going to make the Castile version, I'd either use dual lye or some form of sugar (white sugar, sorbitol, milk powder, etc.) to increase the bubbles. I never use pomace so am not sure if it affects the feel of it.

 

[Chaiat5]

Thank you so much, guys! I think I am retiring my Castile efforts until I gain more experience

So I’ve taken your tips @Servant4Christ and @AliOop and made Bastile soap instead with castor oil, CO and PKO. Felt adventurous and added sugar too!

I used EVOO (couldn’t get regular OO) and boy, WHAT a change! I had only used pomace before and the overly quick trace was a right pain. I may never go back

 

[AliOop]

Yup, that's the main reason I don't use pomace - that quick trace is not fun at all! If you still have some pomace left, try making liquid soap with it. LS traces more slowly than bar soap due to the lower lye concentration, plus KOH being a weaker alkali than NaOH. A nice, basic LS recipe is 33% OO, 33% CO, and 34% castor oil, with 0% SF and 25% lye concentration. It can take 5+ minutes to reach trace/paste stage, so speeding that up is always a good thing.

 

[Chaiat5]

Hehe… my next project

 

[A-Polly]

Perhaps your home water supply could be a variable. It is particularly hard or soft?
(Not that I know what sort of actual chemical difference this makes with sudsing, but I've noticed that my own soaps feel much different when I visit a part of the country with very soft water, vs. my home with at least moderate hardness.)

 

[Chaiat5]

Definitely hard water here… ohhh, OK! Well, that’s discouraging! I do love bubbles!

 

[Susan Cote]

Thank you so much, guys! I think I am retiring my Castile efforts until I gain more experience

So I’ve taken your tips @Servant4Christ and @AliOop and made Bastile soap instead with castor oil, CO and PKO. Felt adventurous and added sugar too!

I used EVOO (couldn’t get regular OO) and boy, WHAT a change! I had only used pomace before and the overly quick trace was a right pain. I may never go back

One thing to take into consideration is olive oil that states it is cold pressed is a heck of a lot different to olive pomace. Olive Pomace is extracted with mostly hexane a chemical solution. This is why I don't and won't use olive pomace in my soap making. I have been researching and reading labels. I had a funky batch using salt and discovered all the additives on the label. Since then I'm alot more careful in what I add to my soap batches!

 

[AliOop]

Definitely hard water here… ohhh, OK! Well, that’s discouraging! I do love bubbles!

Try adding a chelator to your soap to counteract the minerals in your hard water. That will help with the bubbles, and also give you a cleaner rinse-off and less soap scum.

 

[cmzaha]

As for that particular recipe I hated it and did not find it slime free. Personally I hate 100% OO soap or OO in soap for that matter but did make at least one batch per year when I was still selling. My OO soaps were cured 1year and they did lather well. As for Zany's soap it went rossy in less than my year cure time, so I ended up trashing them.

 

[Chaiat5]

Try adding a chelator to your soap to counteract the minerals in your hard water. That will help with the bubbles, and also give you a cleaner rinse-off and less soap scum.

Oooh… OK, so I have some citric acid… I add 6g extra lye for every 10g citric acid, correct? (I cannot believe I am saying this! I flunked Chemistry! )

So, pardon my silly question… what if one were to forget the baking soda in the faux sea water? One might have only used sugar and salt in a batch (one cannot be sure ). Would the soap be terrible? (It actually looks better than the one that had baking soda! Why is my life like this? )

How essential is the baking soda? Can one do away with it?

 

[akseattle]

As for Zany's soap it went rossy in less than my year

@cmzaha , what does that mean? to go rossy?

 

[Chaiat5]

As for that particular recipe I hated it and did not find it slime free. Personally I hate 100% OO soap or OO in soap for that matter but did make at least one batch per year when I was still selling. My OO soaps were cured 1year and they did lather well. As for Zany's soap it went rossy in less than my year cure time, so I ended up trashing them.

I cannot tell you how relieved that makes me feel. I had really wanted to make a Castile soap because people here adore olive oil (I do too… but to eat) and they equate good soap with EVOO. I also thought such a gentle soap might help my friend’s son as he has severe eczema. I can’t seem to get it right. The weather here can be harsh … overly hot summers that hit 50°C etc. so maybe things spoil… I don’t know.

Just curious: Why do you hate OO soaps? (I like my coconut soaps in the summer. Not drying for me.)

 

[akseattle]

I made two batches of Zany's in April. It seems they've gotten a little more yellow.

 

[Chaiat5]

One thing to take into consideration is olive oil that states it is cold pressed is a heck of a lot different to olive pomace. Olive Pomace is extracted with mostly hexane a chemical solution. This is why I don't and won't use olive pomace in my soap making. I have been researching and reading labels. I had a funky batch using salt and discovered all the additives on the label. Since then I'm alot more careful in what I add to my soap batches!

I had used pomace because it was hard for me to cross over and use such an expensive and delicious oil for soap. I also thought of pomace as a zero waste gem, you know? Having said that, I totally understand your point of view!

 

[Ekuzo]

Perhaps your home water supply could be a variable. It is particularly hard or soft?
(Not that I know what sort of actual chemical difference this makes with sudsing, but I've noticed that my own soaps feel much different when I visit a part of the country with very soft water, vs. my home with at least moderate hardness.)

This^

One thing to take into consideration is olive oil that states it is cold pressed is a heck of a lot different to olive pomace. Olive Pomace is extracted with mostly hexane a chemical solution. This is why I don't and won't use olive pomace in my soap making. I have been researching and reading labels. I had a funky batch using salt and discovered all the additives on the label. Since then I'm alot more careful in what I add to my soap batches!

Is it true no matter the effort some of the hexane is still left in the final oil and that's what causes acceleration?

Oooh… OK, so I have some citric acid… I add 6g extra lye for every 10g citric acid, correct? (I cannot believe I am saying this! I flunked Chemistry! )

So, pardon my silly question… what if one were to forget the baking soda in the faux sea water? One might have only used sugar and salt in a batch (one cannot be sure ). Would the soap be terrible? (It actually looks better than the one that had baking soda! Why is my life like this? )

How essential is the baking soda? Can one do away with it?

About the citric acid - yeah, something like that. It's 6.24 g of NaOH per 10g of citric, but even if you go with 6 I doubt you'll notice much difference. The SMF lye calculator can do the math for you, just keep in mind it still has some bugs.

As for baking soda - I think someone on the forum made the recipe with and without it, and the soap with the soda was harder quicker than the one without - so I think it affects at least that.

Just curious: Why do you hate OO soaps? (I like my coconut soaps in the summer. Not drying for me.)

It's probably the slimy feeling and the long cure needed, even I don't like it. Still, I haven't tried ZNSC and I can't comment if it's actually slime free and if it's good after 4 weeks as opposed to 6 months/a year, but most people who've made it seem to like it. I'm one of those who like 100% CO soap as well, I also like the percentage relatively high in the regular recipes

 

[AliOop]

@Chaiat5 You will be fine without the baking soda. I believe it hardens the bar a bit sooner, but honestly, OO soaps become very hard on their own during the long cure.

I did find that the ZNSB recipe wasn't as slimy as the original, 100% OO ZNSC recipe. But it's still not for me. OO soaps don't agree with my skin - they feel itchy and tight. And none of them are slime-free, at least, not for me. I'm a lard/tallow **** - that's what feels good to my skin. But as I've noted before, my dear friend loves the ZNSB with goat milk, so I make that regularly for her. That's what's great about making soap.

Anyway, let your friend test it after at least six months of curing and see what they think. They may be OO lovers, as well. I do agree with Ekuzo that pomace does have some unsaponifiables left in it, which is why it accelerates. I'm not crazy about the thought of those being in my soap. But you don't need to go to the other end of the spectrum and use that expensive and tasty EVOO. I use light OO, which comes from the second or third press and is much less expensive for me. Is that available for you?

@akseattle I'm pretty sure she mean dossy, as in getting DOS. Autocorrect is such a nuisance!

 

[Chaiat5]

What would I do without you guys??? It's one thing to learn the method of soapmaking, but troubleshooting all the particular insane moments is another story altogether!

It's probably the slimy feeling and the long cure needed, even I don't like it. Still, I haven't tried ZNSC and I can't comment if it's actually slime free and if it's good after 4 weeks as opposed to 6 months/a year, but most people who've made it seem to like it. I'm one of those who like 100% CO soap as well, I also like the percentage relatively high in the regular recipes

Fab!!! I think we might be in the minority hehe. I think it's my love for CO soap that's made me so impatient with Castile soap... could not stand faffing about trying to get suds, you know? I'm childish about bubbles I am going to go loco with coco and do something with coconut milk next maybe!

I did find that the ZNSB recipe wasn't as slimy as the original, 100% OO ZNSC recipe. But it's still not for me. OO soaps don't agree with my skin - they feel itchy and tight. And none of them are slime-free, at least, not for me. I'm a lard/tallow **** - that's what feels good to my skin. But as I've noted before, my dear friend loves the ZNSB with goat milk, so I make that regularly for her. That's what's great about making soap.

I've tried your recipe sans goat milk... it unmoulded so nicely and looks so pretty! [I used a paprika infused OO and it's turned such a cute peachy colour.]

I use light OO, which comes from the second or third press and is much less expensive for me. Is that available for you?

I did find a light olive oil but it was mixed with pomace! I even contacted a local olive farm that sells EVOO... they only list EV wild olive oil (so tempting and sooo pricey!) and EVOO. The search goes on