Help me figure out the hardener in this ingredient list - please!

[Sadie Shannon]

I'm new to soap and shampoo making, but I have spent several months just researching and trying to develop something for myself and my family. I found a product that I LOVE and would like to try and recreate something like it, but I'm struggling to figure out what ingredient(s) here were used to harden the bar! I came to this amazing group to ask for help. **I did delete all the essential oils from the list because I know they are probably limited to only a gram or two and are obviously liquid.

Any ideas? I'm guessing they used a hard coconut and palm oil?

Ingredients: saponified organic extra virgin olive, coconut, sustainable palm, sunflower, jojoba & castor oils, certified gluten free oats, sea salt, wild yucca root, wild chaparral.

 

[artemis]

I'm new to soap and shampoo making, but I have spent several months just researching and trying to develop something for myself and my family. I found a product that I LOVE and would like to try and recreate something like it, but I'm struggling to figure out what ingredient(s) here were used to harden the bar! I came to this amazing group to ask for help. **I did delete all the essential oils from the list because I know they are probably limited to only a gram or two and are obviously liquid.

Any ideas? I'm guessing they used a hard coconut and palm oil?

Ingredients: saponified organic extra virgin olive, coconut, sustainable palm, sunflower, jojoba & castor oils, certified gluten free oats, sea salt, wild yucca root, wild chaparral.

I'm not sure what you mean by hardener.

If you mean, what made all those oils into a hard bar of soap, then that would be lye. It's not listed, because they are listing what's in the soap after saponification. The lye has all reacted through the process, so it is not listed.

 

[akseattle]

@Sadie Shannon , as @artemis said, the oils interacting with the lye results in saponification which causes the soap (even soft oils) to harden. Some oils have properties that create a harder bar than others. Have you tried to run a recipe with those oils through SoapCalc? That bar you referred to has 6 different oils.

You can google on the internet until you find a recipe with those 6 oils. Presumably the olive oil, the palm, the coconut oil, and the sunflower oil are the used in the greater percentages. The jojoba and castor oil less.

You can start with a few general rules like 1) if you have drier skin, try not to use more than 20% coconut oil in your recipe. Some say don't go over 8% on castor oil as it can make your soap a little sticky. Some say don't go over 10% on jojoba oil as it creates a softer bar. Palm oil and coconut oil have properties that produce a harder bar. You can play with the percentages in soapcalc until you get a balance of properties that you like.

You can add salt to harden a bar of soap. I use 1 teaspoon per pound of oils.

You said you have been researching for a couple months. It's not clear what materials you've read. I'm also new to cold process soapmaking and two resources that I have found invaluable in trying to understand how to formulate or tweak a recipe so that it has what i want are as follows:

A great article from the Modern Soapmaking website:
What Fatty Acid Profiles in soapmaking are the Most Popular?

https://www.modernsoapmaking.com/blog/the-most-popular-fatty-acid-profiles-in-soapmakin

A great post on @DeeAnna's website Classic Bells "What do the SoapCalc numbers REally mean? That link is:
https://classicbells.com/soap/soapCalcNumbers.asp

I had to read DeeAnna's several times for it to sink in. Modern Soapmaking was a little more narrative and accessible.

Good luck!!! I hope you come up with a soap you love!

 

[akseattle]

certified gluten free oats, sea salt, wild yucca root, wild chaparral.

Actually, I see that the recipe had sea salt. That could have been to help with hardening or if chunky, as an exfoliant. You might look up wild yucca root and wild chaparral and see what they are used for in soap. Maybe the yucca root was coloring? I don't know what wild chaparral is.... When you google for those ingredients, see what amounts are recommended per pound of oil.

 

[DeeAnna]

I fail to see why any "hardener" is required. The fats used to make this soap should make a nicely hard bar without any special help. Adding a little salt would be okay, but not required IMO.

 

[Sadie Shannon]

Thank you all for your feedback! I have been reading and trying to learn as much as I can, and there is so much more I have yet to learn! I posed this as a broad question to help me learn a couple things. 1. language - I can read as much as I want but being able to "talk the talk" really comes down to the community and being involved in it. 2. I wanted to hear how you all interpreted it so I can better learn how to do that too. 3. I wasn't sure if Lye had to be noted on an ingredient list if it was used. I've seen it noted and then haven't, so I wasn't sure.

I appreciate the insight and any continued suggests are greatly appreciated!

p.s. I did try to put it through soap making friend, but I just learned of it and am still figuring out how to really use it.

 

[KiwiMoose]

Oils with high amounts of palmitic and stearic acid create a hard bar. Too much castor oil can make the bar gummy/sticky so we usually recommend to keep it below 10% - most people use 5%. Saturated fats - (CO and Palm in your recipe) will help to create a hard bar, but as AK seattle has said, ALL oils will harden into soap when mixed with lye and saponified. OO makes a hard bar but needs a very long cure - at best a year to ensure it is very hard.

 

[DeeAnna]

... I wasn't sure if Lye had to be noted on an ingredient list if it was used. I've seen it noted and then haven't, so I wasn't sure....

It depends on what country you live in. If you're in the UK, EU, Canada, or other countries, you'd have to get the requirements for your country.

In the US, soap sold purely as a cleanser (no cosmetic or drug claims) does not legally have to have an ingredients list at all. Or one can legally use whatever weird method one likes to create an ingredients list.

Many reputable soap makers in the US follow the requirements for cosmetic labeling, however, even if they're making "just soap". This type of ingredients list contains all ingredients using correct common names arranged in decreasing order by weight.

If you use the "what goes into the pot" method, which is acceptable in the US, then you'd list the fats as well as sodium hydroxide (do not use "lye") along with everything else that went into the soap pot to make the batch.

If you use "what comes out of the pot" method, which is also used in the US and is often required in other countries, then you'd list the names of the soaps formed during soaponification (sodium cocoate, sodium olivate, etc) and all other chemicals present in the finished soap. That means you wouldn't include sodium hydroxide, since NaOH is not present in the finished soap. Glycerin would be included, however, since it is present in the finished soap, if you're using a standard cold process or hot process soapmaking method.

 

[ewhitake]

A great article from the Modern Soapmaking website:
What Fatty Acid Profiles in soapmaking are the Most Popular?

https://www.modernsoapmaking.com/blog/the-most-popular-fatty-acid-profiles-in-soapmakin

A great post on @DeeAnna's website Classic Bells "What do the SoapCalc numbers REally mean? That link is:
https://classicbells.com/soap/soapCalcNumbers.asp

New to soap making too and the Fatty Acid Profile article was my go to while trying to figure out how to balance my recipes.
I’d never read the Classic Bells article. But I’ve come to the same conclusion after a lot of trial and error. Bother articles are great reads!! Thanks so much for sharing