Help - Lard/Lye/Coconut soap disaster

[lisazoo14]

Hello,
I am new to the forum and having trouble finding my way around.
I found a recipe on here a little while back and made it and it did not come out very well and I can not, for the life of me figure out where all the recipes are again.
I Used:
Lye - 126.1 g
Water - 253.8 g
Coconut oil - 181.44 g
Lard - 362.8 g
Olive oil 362.8 g

So here's my dilemma:
The whole process seemed to go as most of my other batches and I thought it was going to work out just fine. And then.....

After about 36 hours I tried to remove the bar from my silicone mold and I COULD NOT get it out. I had to come back to it about two days later.
Once I got it out it looked great. A pure white like I have never seen before, which also seemed a bit odd.
Anyways, as I proceeded to cut it. Every, single, piece broke in half. In just about the same place.
And is a bit crumbly and ashy.

So is this batch a total waste or can I use it for laundry or something?
Thanks
Lisa

 

[Mobjack Bay]

Did you print or write out the recipe? It's very difficult to troubleshoot in a meaningful way without seeing the specifics of the recipe you used. We need weights of oils/fats, water and NaOH weight, any additives, fragrance used, etc. Without any of that information, my best guess is the soap batter was poured before trace and the emulsion was weak.

 

[lisazoo14]

Did you print or write out the recipe? It's very difficult to troubleshoot in a meaningful way without seeing the specifics of the recipe you used. We need weights of oils/fats, water and NaOH weight, any additives, fragrance used, etc. Without any of that information, my best guess is the soap Bayer was poured before trace and the emulsion was weak

 

[lisazoo14]

That is one part of my question - how to find recipes on this forum? I have a similar one printed out from elsewhere for reference, but I used one here and just wrote on the copy. It was called "40 40 20" I think.
I'm somewhere between beginner and novice on my calculations LOL I usu just follow recipes and try not to alter things too much.

I Used:
Lye - 126.1 g
Water - 253.8 g
Coconut oil - 181.44 g
Lard - 362.8 g
Olive oil 362.8 g

 

[lisazoo14]

It did come to trace, albeit after forever as I had to hand stir for an hour.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

There's a 40/40/20 recipe on Soapmaking Friend, here, that almost matches the weights you gave above. SoapMaking Friend sounds a lot like Soapmaking Forum, but they are independent websites. Based on the photo of your batter in the mold, it looks very thin and IMHO that thin batter was the primary issue. Do you not have a stick blender? With that much olive oil and lard in the recipe I'm not surprised to hear that it was very slow to trace. My suggestions for the next time: use a stick blender and/or start with warmer fats and/or lye water and/or do something to help the soap retain heat once it's in the mold (cover with towels, put on a heating pad, put in a warmed oven after you turn the oven off, etc.). An accelerating FO would also speed things up, but could be challenging to control.

 

[lisazoo14]

There's a 40/40/20 recipe on Soapmaking Friend, here, that almost matches the weights you gave above. SoapMaking Friend sounds a lot like Soapmaking Forum, but they are independent websites. Based on the photo of your batter in the mold, it looks very thin and IMHO that thin batter was the primary issue. Do you not have a stick blender? With that much olive oil and lard in the recipe I'm not surprised to hear that it was very slow to trace. My suggestions for the next time: use a stick blender and/or start with warmer fats and/or lye water and/or do something to help the soap retain heat once it's in the mold (cover with towels, put on a heating pad, put in a warmed oven after you turn the oven off, etc.). An accelerating FO would also speed things up, but could be challenging to control.

OOOOHHH, that sounds familiar! So many websites. Thanks.
Yes I normally use an immersion blender but it croaked and I hadn't replaced it yet. There is something to say for doing it by hand sometimes, I mean how many thousands of years has this process been done prior to electricity?

I think the picture was quite a bit before I would call trace. I usually try to take pics at several steps but missed this.
My temps were 125, covered with towels and a blanket.
I don't know what FO is.

 

[AliOop]

I agree with everything @Mobjack Bay has shared. Both OO and lard are very slow to trace, especially without a stickblender.

I also think you waited too long to cut it, but it is hard to say without more information. Please explain more about why you could not get it out of the mold: was it too soft and sticky? hard, but stuck to the sides?

 

[Zuleika]

As someone with no stick blender, I can safely say lard or olive oil is not something I would use in large amounts. I did a 30% lard recipe before and it was slower than a snail. Also, if you used olive oil instead of olive pomace, it will be even slower. I now use a recipe with 30% olive pomace and is fast enough for stick blender-less me.

A pure white like I have never seen before

Your soap looks like a case of bad ash. You're not alone. I had that white outside with fine cracks and crumbly insides in a brine castile before. The feel is soft and "fluffy" due to ash. Crumbs dropped everywhere when cutting and while curing, most of the pieces continued crumbling.

I personally find that the reason for this kind of ash to be:
1) lower soaping temp
2) letting batter sit around for too long before pouring. Whether you had to continue whisking or wait for it to setup (somehow this makes me think that exposure to air caused even the insides to ash)

So is this batch a total waste or can I use it for laundry or something

I used up all of my ashy castile. It is still soap, just not as nice looking.

 

[Kcryss]

I think @Mobjack Bay is correct about the recipe maybe coming from the Soap Making Friend. There is a recipe database there that shows all public recipes. I would caution against using those recipes however as they are not always made by experienced soap makers. If you want to try your hand at making your own recipe or even just understanding what the various fatty acids do, here is a website that will help with gaining that knowledge. @DeeAnna's Classic Bells Soapy Stuff - https://classicbells.com/soap/soapyStuff.asp

 

[Mobjack Bay]

FO is abbreviation for Fragrance Oil

 

[Ford]

Hi, open soap makers friend. Plug in the numbers you have. Lye usage is roughly 2.0:1.0(water:lye) ratio. I'd round off the numbers. On the oils when entering them. Now you have your first recipe. FYI, you gonna need a notebook, lol.
You could swap lard with palm. For a faster recipecee.

 

[Becky1024]

I’ve found that the time to cut recipes high in lard depends on your temperature which you said was 125. At that high of temperature it might have been ready in 12 hours. If you want a longer time before you cut, drop your temperature into the 90’s.

Even though your soap bars are crumbly, the soap is still usable. In fact, they will probably be very hard and last a long time.

 

[lisazoo14]

As someone with no stick blender, I can safely say lard or olive oil is not something I would use in large amounts. I did a 30% lard recipe before and it was slower than a snail. Also, if you used olive oil instead of olive pomace, it will be even slower. I now use a recipe with 30% olive pomace and is fast enough for stick blender-less me.


Your soap looks like a case of bad ash. You're not alone. I had that white outside with fine cracks and crumbly insides in a brine castile before. The feel is soft and "fluffy" due to ash. Crumbs dropped everywhere when cutting and while curing, most of the pieces continued crumbling.

View attachment 77779

I personally find that the reason for this kind of ash to be:
1) lower soaping temp
2) letting batter sit around for too long before pouring. Whether you had to continue whisking or wait for it to setup (somehow this makes me think that exposure to air caused even the insides to ash)


I used up all of my ashy castile. It is still soap, just not as nice looking.

How did you use the soap that was so ashy/crumbly? I am thinking in the laundry. Or little cotton muslin sachets that I use for body scrubbing for my bits and pieces.

 

[Zuleika]

How did you use the soap that was so ashy/crumbly? I am thinking in the laundry. Or little cotton muslin sachets that I use for body scrubbing for my bits and pieces.

Yeah, I have a plastic net bag that holds all my soap. I find the cotton one doesn't dry as fast thus making my soap mushy.