Hello from Central VA

[Barefoot Farm Girl]

Welcome! I’m in Central Virginia too, and make goat’s milk CP soap! I’ll be at the May Faire market coming up on May 4th at The Backyard in Forest. Stop by my tent and say hi if you’re there!

Ugh, I have stuff planned that day, when is the next one you will be at? I’d love to connect!

 

[Marie_with_an_e]

Ugh, I have stuff planned that day, when is the next one you will be at? I’d love to connect!

Oh bummer . I don’t have any others planned at this time but I’ll let you know if that changes.

 

[Barefoot Farm Girl]

Welcome to the forum. I'm also in Virginia, close to Yorktown.

This recipe would move fairly quickly for me, due to using palm (>30%) with castor, and then using olive pomace (which can speed trace compared with non-pomace OO)
32% palm
32% olive pomace
32% coconut
4% castor
5% superfat

Have fun!

Anything I can change up to make it slower moving?

 

[AliOop]

Use regular OO instead of pomace. Pomace accelerates terribly.

Lower the CO to 25% max (I prefer 20%). Make up the difference with OO or another soft oil like HO sunflower or safflower.

Change the PO to lard.

Let the oils and lye cool down to 95F or thereabouts before combining them.

Use your stick blender very sparingly.

Good luck, and let us know how it turns out!

 

[Barefoot Farm Girl]

Use regular OO instead of pomace. Pomace accelerates terribly.

Lower the CO to 25% max (I prefer 20%). Make up the difference with OO or another soft oil like HO sunflower or safflower.

Change the PO to lard.

Let the oils and lye cool down to 95F or thereabouts before combining them.

Use your stick blender very sparingly.

Good luck, and let us know how it turns

I’m double checking myself here
So I have 7% of a soft oil to play with….would grapeseed oil be a good fit? I personally have nothing against using lard in soap, but want to nail down a good go to vegan recipe. Would that 7% adjustment work with the PO also? I’m really struggling to comprehend the fatty acids and the properties. Now I wish I didn’t snooze thru high school science! Don’t tell my mom, but she was right!!!!!!

 

[KiwiMoose]

I’m double checking myself here
So I have 7% of a soft oil to play with….would grapeseed oil be a good fit? I personally have nothing against using lard in soap, but want to nail down a good go to vegan recipe. Would that 7% adjustment work with the PO also? I’m really struggling to comprehend the fatty acids and the properties. Now I wish I didn’t snooze thru high school science! Don’t tell my mom, but she was right!!!!!!

Just increase your OO since it's already in the recipe.

 

[AliOop]

I’m double checking myself here
So I have 7% of a soft oil to play with….would grapeseed oil be a good fit? I personally have nothing against using lard in soap, but want to nail down a good go to vegan recipe. Would that 7% adjustment work with the PO also? I’m really struggling to comprehend the fatty acids and the properties. Now I wish I didn’t snooze thru high school science! Don’t tell my mom, but she was right!!!!!!

I agree with @KiwiMoose that for a new soaper, it's best to just increase the OO because that limits the number of total oils in your recipe.

Also, keep in mind that my recommendations were in response to your question about how to slow down the batter. Those recommendations would change if you had different goals, like a harder bar, or different type of lather.

But if you do add another oil, I don't recommend grapeseed oil for soap due to its short shelf life. High-oleic versions of canola, safflower, or sunflower would be a better choice, or rice bran oil.

Don't worry so much about keeping the cleansing value in the recommended range. Many handcrafted soapmakers ignore that range because frankly, it makes the soap too cleansing so that it strips the oil off your skin. You probably want to stay at the low end of that range, which means lowering your CO or PKO. That will decrease your lather, but you can easily offset that by pre-dissolving some sugar in your water, before you add the NaOH. The lather numbers won't change in the calculator, but your soap will lather better.

Keep up the good work with asking questions and learning!

 

[Barefoot Farm Girl]

I agree with @KiwiMoose that for a new soaper, it's best to just increase the OO because that limits the number of total oils in your recipe.

Also, keep in mind that my recommendations were in response to your question about how to slow down the batter. Those recommendations would change if you had different goals, like a harder bar, or different type of lather.

But if you do add another oil, I don't recommend grapeseed oil for soap due to its short shelf life. High-oleic versions of canola, safflower, or sunflower would be a better choice, or rice bran oil.

Don't worry so much about keeping the cleansing value in the recommended range. Many handcrafted soapmakers ignore that range because frankly, it makes the soap too cleansing so that it strips the oil off your skin. You probably want to stay at the low end of that range, which means lowering your CO or PKO. That will decrease your lather, but you can easily offset that by pre-dissolving some sugar in your water, before you add the NaOH. The lather numbers won't change in the calculator, but your soap will lather better.

Keep up the good work with asking questions and learning!

I love the way you explain things this makes perfect sense!

 

[akseattle]

@Barefoot Farm Girl , Hello and Welcome! I am also a beginner (13 small batches so far) and I feel your pain trying to digest all the information about fatty acids and properties.

After my initial post for help - I thought something had gone horribly wrong. The recipe had almost no water and it cooled off so fast, I barely had a chance to scoop it into the molds before it had hardened. @DeeAnna encouraged me to take it slow. She suggested the best approach is to make soap that is fragrance and colorant free until I had a good handle on things. I promptly blew her off - There are so many fragrances, so many molds, so many oils to try, I just didn't have the patience to take it slow! After using too much T.D. to whiten one layer in my 3rd batch, I decided to take DeeAnna's advice and back up just a little...

For my 4th batch, I tried the exact recipe you used except with 3% superfat (I followed SoapQueen's Lots of Lather to a "T").
I picked that recipe because her blog says she teaches it in all her beginning classes and that it is "tried and true."

I used red palm oil with NO colorants (that was my being patient compromise on taking it slow) and 6% grapefruit E.O. I soaped when oils and lye water were 108/109. I used single molds. Compared to my first 3 batches, it was an absolute pleasure. I loved the beautiful yellow orange color. The drawback was that I battled soda ash for a week and that the grapefruit E.O. was not quite strong enough to overcome the somewhat distinct smell of red palm oil. (Since then, I have immediately sprayed with alcohol, put the soap in a box, piled towels and a blanket on top to insulate it until it was cut, then I put the cut soap back in it's box and kept it covered for a week. - I haven't decided if that is necessary.... )

Because the palm oil's strong orange color dictates using alot of TD or using an orange or brown color scheme, the only thing I changed (oil-wise) for the next 3 batches was that I replaced the palm oil for lard once, and twice I replaced the palm oil for tallow. I also increased the superfat to 5%. I have dry skin and after reading a bunch of stuff, I was a little concerned about the high % of coconut oil in that recipe. (I don't yet know if that recipe is or isn't drying because those batches are only just now at the 6-8 week mark.)

Those next three batches had multiple colored swirls, so T.D. and micas. In the 6th batch, I added espresso grounds and what I thought was coconut E.O, but turned out to be a misrepresented coconut fragrance I bought on Amazon. In the 7th batch, I used lavender E.O.

All 4 batches were COLD PROCESS and had 467 grams of oil and 33% water as % of weight. I soaped all batches at 108-113 (although I made sure oils & lye water were within 5 degrees of each other- I understand they don't actually have to be within 10 degrees - it just eliminates one more variable for beginners.

What I have gleaned from these four batches plus what I have subsequently read is that:
1) Stick blending is better kept to a minimum, alternate between a couple short bursts of stick blending and hand blending
2) The fragrance you use can make a big difference. Certain essential oils purportedly deaccelerate trace- included in those is lavender and grapefruit E.O. I don't know if that is true, but the batch with coconut fragrance and the espresso grounds moved pretty fast. The others didn't. I'm now using fragrances, since they are alot less pricey and compared to Melt & Pour, cold process requires alot more product. So, I read reviews to see if there are complaints of acceleration, ricing, discoloration, etc. when selecting a FO.
3) it's important to get organized before starting. I print out my recipe, run it through soapcalc and print that, too, and I print out a "Materials List" of every single item I need- from oils, micas, gloves, etc. right down to chopsticks and spatulas , and I print out list of the procedures I'm going to follow (I've made myself templates/forms for these). I stick post it notes on my cupboard above the micas and fragrance in the exact order that I will use them. I check off things as I go so that I am less likely to forget things (I have forgotten fragrances and exfoliants ). It is stressful to have to run to the basement looking for the mica I meant to use, or to get a spatula, etc while my batter is thickening up on me.

4) I don't know about hot process, but in cold process soap, if you LIKE the feel of the soap and you want to keep your recipe, you could increase the water. I know many recommend adjusting the lye concentration on soapcalc. For some reason, I can't wrap my brain around lye concentration and it is easier to think of % water as % of weight. Many recipes for beginners have up to 38% water as % of weight. I understand the reason is too give a beginner more time before things start to get to thick to work with. That much water would require more time before you can unmold, and for cure, etc. Except for Zany's No Slime Castille Bar that I made a couple of weekends ago, and after my first batch which had 19% water, I use 32% or 33% of water as % of weight. I have considered increasing that to 34% on my next 3 color swirl, just to give me a little more time.

If increasing water doesn't appeal to you, but you're willing to adjust the oils a little, as @AliOop and @KiwiMoose suggested, you could replace a little bit of one of the hard oils with a high oleic oil. You can do small batches (450-500 gram) adjusting the % of soft oils each time to see when you feel a difference. I don't know how big your batch was that you made. The only batch I've made that wasn't between 450-500 grams was Zany'sNSC. That batch was 1000 grams. I don't know if it was the high % of olive oil, the fact that I used only one mica and 1/2 the recommended fragrance, or the fact that there was more volume, but it moved SUPER SLOW. I felt like I could have gone outside and cut the lawn while making this soap.

You said that it seems like there is a little "oil left behind." I don't know if you meant that there is a little oil left behind on your skin, or somewhere else. But, if you think the soap feels good but maybe a little oil left on your skin-and you don't want it quite so moisturizing, I wonder if reducing the superfat by 1% would help with that? There are others on this forum who might be able to comment and explain that superfat issue better than me, so I won't try. But, less superfat is not quite as moisturizing as high superfat. So, it depends on who is using the soap as to whether you want a little more or a little less superfat.

Anyway, welcome to the exciting world of soapmaking! Keep us posted on your adventures!

 

[Barefoot Farm Girl]

@Barefoot Farm Girl , Hello and Welcome! I am also a beginner (13 small batches so far) and I feel your pain trying to digest all the information about fatty acids and properties.

After my initial post for help - I thought something had gone horribly wrong. The recipe had almost no water and it cooled off so fast, I barely had a chance to scoop it into the molds before it had hardened. @DeeAnna encouraged me to take it slow. She suggested the best approach is to make soap that is fragrance and colorant free until I had a good handle on things. I promptly blew her off - There are so many fragrances, so many molds, so many oils to try, I just didn't have the patience to take it slow! After using too much T.D. to whiten one layer in my 3rd batch, I decided to take DeeAnna's advice and back up just a little...

For my 4th batch, I tried the exact recipe you used except with 3% superfat (I followed SoapQueen's Lots of Lather to a "T").
I picked that recipe because her blog says she teaches it in all her beginning classes and that it is "tried and true."

I used red palm oil with NO colorants (that was my being patient compromise on taking it slow) and 6% grapefruit E.O. I soaped when oils and lye water were 108/109. I used single molds. Compared to my first 3 batches, it was an absolute pleasure. I loved the beautiful yellow orange color. The drawback was that I battled soda ash for a week and that the grapefruit E.O. was not quite strong enough to overcome the somewhat distinct smell of red palm oil. (Since then, I have immediately sprayed with alcohol, put the soap in a box, piled towels and a blanket on top to insulate it until it was cut, then I put the cut soap back in it's box and kept it covered for a week. - I haven't decided if that is necessary.... )

Because the palm oil's strong orange color dictates using alot of TD or using an orange or brown color scheme, the only thing I changed (oil-wise) for the next 3 batches was that I replaced the palm oil for lard once, and twice I replaced the palm oil for tallow. I also increased the superfat to 5%. I have dry skin and after reading a bunch of stuff, I was a little concerned about the high % of coconut oil in that recipe. (I don't yet know if that recipe is or isn't drying because those batches are only just now at the 6-8 week mark.)

Those next three batches had multiple colored swirls, so T.D. and micas. In the 6th batch, I added espresso grounds and what I thought was coconut E.O, but turned out to be a misrepresented coconut fragrance I bought on Amazon. In the 7th batch, I used lavender E.O.

All 4 batches were COLD PROCESS and had 467 grams of oil and 33% water as % of weight. I soaped all batches at 108-113 (although I made sure oils & lye water were within 5 degrees of each other- I understand they don't actually have to be within 10 degrees - it just eliminates one more variable for beginners.

What I have gleaned from these four batches plus what I have subsequently read is that:
1) Stick blending is better kept to a minimum, alternate between a couple short bursts of stick blending and hand blending
2) The fragrance you use can make a big difference. Certain essential oils purportedly deaccelerate trace- included in those is lavender and grapefruit E.O. I don't know if that is true, but the batch with coconut fragrance and the espresso grounds moved pretty fast. The others didn't. I'm now using fragrances, since they are alot less pricey and compared to Melt & Pour, cold process requires alot more product. So, I read reviews to see if there are complaints of acceleration, ricing, discoloration, etc. when selecting a FO.
3) it's important to get organized before starting. I print out my recipe, run it through soapcalc and print that, too, and I print out a "Materials List" of every single item I need- from oils, micas, gloves, etc. right down to chopsticks and spatulas , and I print out list of the procedures I'm going to follow (I've made myself templates/forms for these). I stick post it notes on my cupboard above the micas and fragrance in the exact order that I will use them. I check off things as I go so that I am less likely to forget things (I have forgotten fragrances and exfoliants ). It is stressful to have to run to the basement looking for the mica I meant to use, or to get a spatula, etc while my batter is thickening up on me.

4) I don't know about hot process, but in cold process soap, if you LIKE the feel of the soap and you want to keep your recipe, you could increase the water. I know many recommend adjusting the lye concentration on soapcalc. For some reason, I can't wrap my brain around lye concentration and it is easier to think of % water as % of weight. Many recipes for beginners have up to 38% water as % of weight. I understand the reason is too give a beginner more time before things start to get to thick to work with. That much water would require more time before you can unmold, and for cure, etc. Except for Zany's No Slime Castille Bar that I made a couple of weekends ago, and after my first batch which had 19% water, I use 32% or 33% of water as % of weight. I have considered increasing that to 34% on my next 3 color swirl, just to give me a little more time.

If increasing water doesn't appeal to you, but you're willing to adjust the oils a little, as @AliOop and @KiwiMoose suggested, you could replace a little bit of one of the hard oils with a high oleic oil. You can do small batches (450-500 gram) adjusting the % of soft oils each time to see when you feel a difference. I don't know how big your batch was that you made. The only batch I've made that wasn't between 450-500 grams was Zany'sNSC. That batch was 1000 grams. I don't know if it was the high % of olive oil, the fact that I used only one mica and 1/2 the recommended fragrance, or the fact that there was more volume, but it moved SUPER SLOW. I felt like I could have gone outside and cut the lawn while making this soap.

You said that it seems like there is a little "oil left behind." I don't know if you meant that there is a little oil left behind on your skin, or somewhere else. But, if you think the soap feels good but maybe a little oil left on your skin-and you don't want it quite so moisturizing, I wonder if reducing the superfat by 1% would help with that? There are others on this forum who might be able to comment and explain that superfat issue better than me, so I won't try. But, less superfat is not quite as moisturizing as high superfat. So, it depends on who is using the soap as to whether you want a little more or a little less superfat.

Anyway, welcome to the exciting world of soapmaking! Keep us posted on your adventures!

It’s so hard to stay in my lane and go slow, I want to create ALL the pretty soaps!!! The evil soap gremlin sits on my shoulder and whispers in my ear “Go ahead, do it!!! It will be fine!”

I made a batch of CP soap, the gremlin made me swap some oils, add EO and mica and do an in the pot swirl. The soap gods must have been looking over my shoulder and decided to give the newbie soap maker their blessing since it came out really nice.

To tame the impatient beast I decided to cut the end scrap into 4 pieces, number them and use 1 per week while it cures. The purpose for my curious mind…. See the changes week by week, hardness, lather, conditioning etc. (not my brain child, I saw it on one of the 1,000,000 blogs I read at 2am)

Soaping is definitely an addiction, I just stayed up all night reading the recipes in the Soap Making Companion.

This weekend, we are going to try goat milk soap, we want this all natural, no fragrance and no color so I promised myself I would make the same batch without the milk for a side by side comparison. Wish me luck!!!

 

[DeeAnna]

@akseattle -- thanks for the kind words, but I don't think I'm the person you're thinking of. I've been known to recommend "taking it slow and keeping it simple" when learning soap making, but I don't teach soap making classes. Maybe you've confused me with someone else?

 

[akseattle]

thanks for the kind words, but I don't think I'm the person you're thinking of. I've been known to recommend "taking it slow and keeping it simple" when learning soap making, but I don't teach soap making classes. Maybe you've confused me with someone else?

@DeeAnna, I was writing away in the wee hours.
You did advise me to take it slow and keep it simple. Which I very much appreciate. And even though I couldn't quite go back to completely basic- no colorants, no fragrance- the genie was out of that bottle, I have made only small, slow adjustments in that beginning recipe (and taken careful notes). But, that beginning recipe I used was from SoapQueen. She's the one that says that she teaches that particular recipe in all her beginning classes.

BTW, I have been reading a fair amount of the content on the Soapy Stuff section of your Classic Bells website. @AliOop recommended some section of it at some point- I forget what section in particular. I would not have been able to digest most of your content four months ago, and soapcalc was complete gobbly-goo. (I'm sure I stumbled upon your website early on in my late night googling, but my eyes had glazed over.)

At this time, your Fats & Fatty Acids section and Iodine Number discussion, in particular, are finally making sense and really helpful to me. I'm sure I'll read and re-read most of your articles many times, before I feel soap literate. I understand that some of soaping is taste and intuition, but there is also history and science involved. In a soap world where there is sooooo much conflicting guidance, and conflicting claims, I appreciate that you identify your source material ! So, thanks for your Soapy Stuff Column!!

 

[akseattle]

It’s so hard to stay in my lane and go slow, I want to create ALL the pretty soaps!!!

This weekend, we are going to try goat milk soap, we want this all natural, no fragrance and no color so I promised myself I would make the same batch without the milk for a side by side comparison. Wish me luck!!!

You go girl! Good luck to you and that evil gremlin! And keep us posted on the results! - Let us know if you kept your "no fragrance, no color" promise or if you fell off the wagon!

 

[Barefoot Farm Girl]

You go girl! Good luck to you and that evil gremlin! And keep us posted on the results! - Let us know if you kept your "no fragrance, no color" promise or if you fell off the wagon!

I donno if I’m gonna be able to the pretty micas are whispering to me “ wouldn’t the dark blue work really well with the copy of moonlight path in the one without goat milk???”

 

[Barefoot Farm Girl]

I donno if I’m gonna be able to the pretty micas are whispering to me “ wouldn’t the dark blue work really well with the copy of moonlight path in the one without goat milk???”

@akseattle I almost made it, no colorant, but the Italian Lemonchello from BB was calling my name!

 

[akseattle]

@Barefoot Farm Girl , good job! I'd really like to find a good lemon fragrance. If BB ever reduces their postage costs, I'll have to try Italian Lemonchello. Let us know if it sticks well.

 

[Barefoot Farm Girl]

@Barefoot Farm Girl , good job! I'd really like to find a good lemon fragrance. If BB ever reduces their postage costs, I'll have to try Italian Lemonchello. Let us know if it sticks well.I did their samples $20 for 10 and snuck them in with a bigger order so it wasn’t so painful. It is going to end up on the lighter side, I really needed more for a heavier scent. So far so good, some of my EO had muted by now and this one is still going strong. I love the scent, it’s sweeter than straight up lemon