New Soap maker with a problem . . .

[TheGecko]

I'm about to give up on trying new things (like butter rich recipes) and go back to olive oil recipes ~ at least I know how they behave! Trial & error, over & over (unless you really truly grasp the science of soap making!)

Don't give up. Just make smaller batches and make lots of notes. And don't forget to include your environment in your notes. Example...I live in the Pacific Northwest and my first winter I struggled with making soap until I learned how the rain affected umolding and my curing process and how to adjust for it. Then spring of last year I was making wedding soaps and since it was still fairly damp I was using my "winter" recipe and the first batch turned out great, but the second batch was a completely failure. Fortunately I had made more Master Batch than I needed and had allowed an extra two weeks for curing, because I ended up using both as I learned a new lesson about unseasonable rain and cavity molds.

but I've still managed to make errors (for instance: a recent batch with 6x as much scent as I was supposed to use...).

And you'll continue to do so. My first year, about half of my batches turned out badly, but instead of looking at them as "failures', I saw them as "opportunities to learn more"...and bought a couple of 4" Square Silicone Molds (20oz) since they didn't need to be expensive (50oz) opportunities. Four years later, I'm still having 'opportunities'. Last Fall I decided to make five Christmas soaps and I was in a hurry and broke my own rule about testing all new fragrances. I just went for it. 5lb batches. Only four made it to the craft fair. This past winter, we had a couple of weeks of really good weather that played havoc on my Master Batch and I didn't catch it. Another 10lbs of soap completely ruined plus I had to dump 10lbs of oils/butters...completely my fault.

 

[cmzaha]

Well thank you! I feel thoroughly scolded and several of your assumptions, comments, and calculations are at odds with what actually occurred. One of the hazards of belonging to a group like this is there is always an "expert" who wants to preach rather than teach. I take it I don't have to explain which category I place you in. All sarcasm aside, I did consult with my daughter and as I said, my first batch, following the Cable book recipe was amazing. I discounted the water 10% following a conversation with the aforementioned daughter and the results were great, nice hard bars, that are curing nicely and test bars lather up well, are creamy, and feel good on the skin. In the second batch, I admit to one mistake to start with . . . I doubled the recipe (thinking like a baker) without consulting daughter, soap calculator, or other expert. I did not "make up" the Lye Solution. I found instructions for rebatching the soap as follows: Use 2 0z of lye to 20 oz of H20 and add small amounts of that solution to the melted soap until the desired consistency is reached. You are correct about one thing: I didn't know enough to make that up on my own. I followed instructions I found online for rebatching soft soap. I'm not exactly sure how "not know how to use a soap calculator" figures in. I can read, follow instructions, and interpret the results of plugging numbers into a calculator. I stand by the numbers I got, and for your information. others have weighed in and come up with numbers different from mine or yours, so go figure. Doubling the recipe should have worked, according to my daughter, you and my own research. I don't mind saying that I made a mistake somewhere, though I'm at a loss to figure out where, one of the reasons I sought help here. I do take umbrage at being spoken to like an idiot. Amateur Yes! Idiot, NO! There were helpful tidbits in your scolding: 1. Use a recipe and check it in a calculator, 2. Don't change it without checking a calculator, 3. Seek advice from "teachers", 4. Continue to research and read and maybe even experiment even as an amateur, 5. Your reference to the "salting out" process was actually very interesting and while i don't think I'm ready to attempt it, it is interesting chemistry.

So, all that aside, I'm am not dissuaded by your preachy rudeness and I will continue my journey as a fledgling soap maker, and as such, a piece of advise to you. You may be the expert and have years of experience. You are a poor teacher! Next time, try sharing your expertise without rude and condescending comments Serious students don't fail to learn because they're stupid. They fail to learn
because their teachers are incompetent.

Best Wishes

P.S. I'm not the only one in this forum whose soap won't harden . . . perhaps they're all as stupid as you think I am!!!!


Thanks for your comments. They are helpful and the "Salting Out" process is interesting, I'm not quite ready for that. I may rebatch it once more or figure out another use for what I have, but I'm not quite ready to throw it out. More reading, research and advice from qualified teacher experts is in order.

Thank you!

I do not see anywhere where The Gecko said you are stupid. She was really giving good advice and guidelines. When folks ask for help in the forum we do try to guide and suggest but sadly the answers are not always taken in the context we give them. You were not being targeted or scolded you were given helpful suggestions on for making safe soap. Fair warning sometimes my answers can be taken wrong to the max. I guarantee we have all made mistakes and dumped batches no matter how many years we have made soap. FYI, no offense to Zany, but I absolutely hate that no-slime OO soap recipe. So see we all have opinions. But I do think Cee knows my opinion of it, it simply did not work for me. Others love, so it is relative.

FYI soap tends to do what it wants to do and No One called you stupid. Just remember to run all recipes through a lye calculator even proven written recipes. The biggest failure I had and the stupid soap would not even cure out in a year was a written recipe from a well-known Soapmaker and teacher who actually has an online website and runs classes. LOL, it was probably the only time I did not double-check a recipe. LOL, I will not mention her name but I never used any of her recipes since. I am also a long-time soapmaker who has probably been there and done that with a lot of experimenting.

So you want help stick around and do not take offense to every answer you get. As a saying used to go in a now-defunct forum was, " Pull up the big girl panties,". Those girls/guys could be brutal but had a wealth of info. Some of the members are now members here.

 

[AliensrReal]

The most fun part to me of soap making is learning from the mistakes you have made. I’ve been soaping for over 15 years and recently had two batches of soap separate back to back on me. I learned I didn’t allow it to go to a trace stable emulsion like I should have. They aren’t the best looking soaps, but they’re soap and I will use them. There are going to be batches that are a total loss and that’s perfectly normal. There are going to be mistakes made along the way, but how else do we learn?

 

[cmzaha]

The most fun part to me of soap making is learning from the mistakes you have made. I’ve been soaping for over 15 years and recently had two batches of soap separate back to back on me. I learned I didn’t allow it to go to trace like I should have. They aren’t the best looking soaps, but they’re soap and I will use them. There are going to be batches that are a total loss and that’s perfectly normal. There are going to be mistakes made along the way, but how else do we learn?

Interesting you mentioned you did not let them get to trace. I very seldom poured soap at trace. I only take mine to just emulsion, because I actually have pretty fast-moving recipes except for one. Soap batter only needs to be at a stable emulsion, meaning no oil laying on the top of your batter.

 

[AliensrReal]

Interesting you mentioned you did not let them get to trace. I very seldom poured soap at trace. I only take mine to just emulsion, because I actually have pretty fast-moving recipes except for one. Soap batter only needs to be at a stable emulsion, meaning no oil laying on the top of your batter.

Sorry, I meant stable emulsion. I don’t think they were fully emulsified although they all started to separate towards the end of the pour. Lately, I’ve been mixing to emulsion instead of trace and then adding colorants and fragrance to get more intricate designs. I just don’t think those two batches were fully emulsified, but I could be wrong. I don’t want to blame the fragrance oil as they both seemed to work well for others. The recipe I used can be fast moving though.

 

[mmishou]

I do not see anywhere where The Gecko said you are stupid. She was really giving good advice and guidelines. When folks ask for help in the forum we do try to guide and suggest but sadly the answers are not always taken in the context we give them. You were not being targeted or scolded you were given helpful suggestions on for making safe soap. Fair warning sometimes my answers can be taken wrong to the max. I guarantee we have all made mistakes and dumped batches no matter how many years we have made soap. FYI, no offense to Zany, but I absolutely hate that no-slime OO soap recipe. So see we all have opinions. But I do think Cee knows my opinion of it, it simply did not work for me. Others love, so it is relative.

FYI soap tends to do what it wants to do and No One called you stupid. Just remember to run all recipes through a lye calculator even proven written recipes. The biggest failure I had and the stupid soap would not even cure out in a year was a written recipe from a well-known Soapmaker and teacher who actually has an online website and runs classes. LOL, it was probably the only time I did not double-check a recipe. LOL, I will not mention her name but I never used any of her recipes since. I am also a long-time soapmaker who has probably been there and done that with a lot of experimenting.

So you want help stick around and do not take offense to every answer you get. As a saying used to go in a now-defunct forum was, " Pull up the big girl panties,". Those girls/guys could be brutal but had a wealth of info. Some of the members are now members here.

Thanks for your input. I understand that things go wrong. My daughter, a 12-15 year soap maker says she still has an occasional batch go south. I'll be learning and researching as I go forward. Since my very first batch turned out very well, I know I can do it. I would just like to develop consistency and have a reliable product. The second batch is going in the trash.

 

[Shelley D]

Thanks for your input. I understand that things go wrong. My daughter, a 12-15 year soap maker says she still has an occasional batch go south. I'll be learning and researching as I go forward. Since my very first batch turned out very well, I know I can do it. I would just like to develop consistency and have a reliable product. The second batch is going in the trash.

Then maybe start with the holy grail recipe (a small batch) and evaluate the soap after curing. Then we can help you tweak the recipe to better suit your preferences. For me, I like that it make a hard bar that lathers well, but it seems to be overly cleansing so I prefer less coconut oil and less palm oil in my recipes.
You can use the search feature to find recipes in the forum as many people have shared their their tried & true recipes as well.
It can be an addictive hobby, partly for the quest of trying to make the "perfect" soap and partly for wanting to try all the oil combinations! So buckle up and enjoy the insanity, I mean the ride!

 

[Ephemerella]

One of the hazards of belonging to a group like this is there is always an "expert" who wants to preach rather than teach. I take it I don't have to explain which category I place you in.

You know, I haven't come across a single pro here who favors lecturing over educating. @TheGecko, like so many wonderfully patient and generous folks here, dedicates time to sharing their insight and guidance without asking for anything in return.

It's a bit tricky to get the tone right in written posts, isn't it? But, believe me, even if advice might come off as straightforward or blunt, it's far from being condescending or preachy. Gecko is just trying to help you sidestep any future expensive, and potentially damaging, missteps.

Happy soapy adventures.

My first year, about half of my batches turned out badly, but instead of looking at them as "failures', I saw them as "opportunities to learn more"...

My first batch, I did *everything* wrong and the batch still turned out wonderful (still have a bar from that batch!) and I was convinced I had found my calling as a soaping goddess. THEN, my second, thrid, fourth.... all turned out awful. I was gobsmacked and crushed and completely confused. So I grabbed a bottle of wine and knuckled down and made more.

I'll never forget one evening when Mr. E came home and saw me cutting dozens and dozens of bars, scrutinizing and scribbling observations in my notebook like a mad scientist. He exclaimed What on earth are you doing? Just how much soap do you think we need??? And I said, Honey, I'm not making soap, I'm making mistakes. And I'm going to make as many as I can now and get them out of the way.

 

[TheGecko]

My first batch, I did *everything* wrong and the batch still turned out wonderful (still have a bar from that batch!) and I was convinced I had found my calling as a soaping goddess. THEN, my second, thrid, fourth.... all turned out awful. I was gobsmacked and crushed and completely confused. So I grabbed a bottle of wine and knuckled down and made more.

I'll never forget one evening when Mr. E came home and saw me cutting dozens and dozens of bars, scrutinizing and scribbling observations in my notebook like a mad scientist. He exclaimed What on earth are you doing? Just how much soap do you think we need??? And I said, Honey, I'm not making soap, I'm making mistakes. And I'm going to make as many as I can now and get them out of the way.

Did you know that soap can shatter? Do you know what happens when you mix the Lye Solution meant for 34 oz of oils into 14 oz oils? Gawd as my witness, I thought it was going to catch of fire and through it out in the middle of my driveway. I had to toss a bowl trying to chip soapcreate out of it and it took a good hour on a slow boil to get it hour of stick blender. My first batch of Goat Milk Soap...awful is putting it mildly. And I was crying when my husband came home because my beautiful soap scented with Lemon EO...was orange. I was in absolute shock when I went to show him the soap and it was yellow!

The Christmas soaps I made last year...every freaking one of them accelerated and they were all swirls. Out of the five...three came through beautifully, one managed to pass muster. The fourth one...I have no clue what happened. It turned the most awful color and was like a black hole because I had to have poured in over a half of cup of thick dispersed TD and nothing. I left it in the mold for almost four days and had to scoop it out...it was gross.

 

[melinda48]

Well thank you! I feel thoroughly scolded and several of your assumptions, comments, and calculations are at odds with what actually occurred. One of the hazards of belonging to a group like this is there is always an "expert" who wants to preach rather than teach. I take it I don't have to explain which category I place you in. All sarcasm aside, I did consult with my daughter and as I said, my first batch, following the Cable book recipe was amazing. I discounted the water 10% following a conversation with the aforementioned daughter and the results were great, nice hard bars, that are curing nicely and test bars lather up well, are creamy, and feel good on the skin. In the second batch, I admit to one mistake to start with . . . I doubled the recipe (thinking like a baker) without consulting daughter, soap calculator, or other expert. I did not "make up" the Lye Solution. I found instructions for rebatching the soap as follows: Use 2 0z of lye to 20 oz of H20 and add small amounts of that solution to the melted soap until the desired consistency is reached. You are correct about one thing: I didn't know enough to make that up on my own. I followed instructions I found online for rebatching soft soap. I'm not exactly sure how "not know how to use a soap calculator" figures in. I can read, follow instructions, and interpret the results of plugging numbers into a calculator. I stand by the numbers I got, and for your information. others have weighed in and come up with numbers different from mine or yours, so go figure. Doubling the recipe should have worked, according to my daughter, you and my own research. I don't mind saying that I made a mistake somewhere, though I'm at a loss to figure out where, one of the reasons I sought help here. I do take umbrage at being spoken to like an idiot. Amateur Yes! Idiot, NO! There were helpful tidbits in your scolding: 1. Use a recipe and check it in a calculator, 2. Don't change it without checking a calculator, 3. Seek advice from "teachers", 4. Continue to research and read and maybe even experiment even as an amateur, 5. Your reference to the "salting out" process was actually very interesting and while i don't think I'm ready to attempt it, it is interesting chemistry.

So, all that aside, I'm am not dissuaded by your preachy rudeness and I will continue my journey as a fledgling soap maker, and as such, a piece of advise to you. You may be the expert and have years of experience. You are a poor teacher! Next time, try sharing your expertise without rude and condescending comments Serious students don't fail to learn because they're stupid. They fail to learn
because their teachers are incompetent.

Best Wishes

P.S. I'm not the only one in this forum whose soap won't harden . . . perhaps they're all as stupid as you think I am!!!!


Thanks for your comments. They are helpful and the "Salting Out" process is interesting, I'm not quite ready for that. I may rebatch it once more or figure out another use for what I have, but I'm not quite ready to throw it out. More reading, research and advice from qualified teacher experts is in order.

Thank you!

I learned early on that the people in this group are taking time from their lives to share their expertise. At first I found some of the comments a bit “sharp” but as I stay involved, I see clearly that these folks know more than I (which is why I joined to begin with) and that their comments always have information I need/want. I also learned to not be overly sensitive when another member answers a questions very directly and succinctly. I would suggest you consider the reason you chose to join the group and whether or not the information is “worth your time.” I found it to be and have never looked back.