Hardness in use

[Soapacetic]

+1 more cure time.

Let em sit for a month 4 weeks minimum cure.

Your recipe is fine, just let them cure and they will last longer!

 

[vyadha]

That recipe looks like it shouldn't be too bad. How long are you curing the bars for?

Is it possible to keep your bars out of the bathroom? For example, I shave with a straight razor and they are better kept away from steam and dampness to help keep them in good condition - maybe your bars would benefit from a break from the bathroom when not in use?


ETA - hardness does not automatically mean long lasting. This is from this post by DeeAnna - http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=33563&highlight=important+numbers&page=2 so the examples will not apply directly here, but the theory will
------------------------
Hardness: The hardness value is the sum of Lauric + Myristic + Palmitic + Stearic acids.

These are the saturated fatty acids. The Hardness number is a measure of the physical hardness-like-a-rock. It tells you how relatively easy it will be to unmold a particular soap after saponification. It does NOT necessarily tell you how long-lived the soap will be -- I'll get to that in a bit.

Hardness number from the fatty acid profile (above) = 0% + 0% + 30% + 33% = 63%.
Soapcalc Hardness = 61%.

Is the difference between 63% and 61% important? Nope, not too much. Keep in mind that any fatty acid profile for any particular fat is only an estimate. The SoapCalc folks calculated their Hardness number from slightly different data than we are using. Bottom line -- don't agonize over differences of a few percentage points.

Long life: The longevity of a soap is the sum of the Palmitic + Stearic acids.

Palmitic and stearic acids create a soap that is relatively hard and relatively insoluble in water.

Long-lasting number from the fatty acid profile = 30% + 33% = 63%
SoapCalc Long-lasting number = ???

I said I'd get back to this issue. SoapCalc numbers do not directly measure longevity. Many people confuse the Hardness number as being a measure of how long lived the soap is, but that is not strictly correct. If you are working in SoapCalc, the fastest way to estimate the Long-lasting number is this:

SoapCalc Long-lasting number = Hardness number - Cleansing number

For cocoa butter, it's a no-brainer -- the Hardness number is the same as the Long-lasting number. For a Coconut Oil soap, the story is quite different:

Hardness = 79
Cleansing = 67
Long-lasting = 79 - 67 = 12

Compare that to 63 for cocoa butter. Bottom line -- a coconut oil soap will not last nearly as long as a cocoa butter soap, all other things being equal.
-----------------------

So, lowering your cleansing (coconut) and upping your palm oil will result in a bar that last longer

Such an educational post! Thank you!

Lastingness(?) has always been elusive to me other than utilizing a long cure. I pulled out a tallow, coconut and olive oil bar from 3 motnhs ago and it was excellent. Ive let other recipes cure this long and maybe I just didnt appreciate the mildness and ferocious lathering.

 

[Moonday]

Change to soap under customer eyes is a strategy!!! Of course I didn't use it but think to packaging time and transferring and selling time! When I sell soap myself , this time is very short near two week but when I send it to another sellers the time will increase to 4 or 6 week until end user start to use it!

 

[MorpheusPA]

Mind you, I don't sell...I just give a lot away!

Even so, four weeks is the minimum cure time, at which point a bar of soap becomes something very nice. In some cases, with higher levels of olive oil, I extend cure time a lot.

I've already made a lot of my Christmas 2015 gifts, and everything with 70% olive oil or greater is on the shelf, extended curing. By Christmas, those bars will be absolutely magical.

 

[not_ally]

Moonday, I think something might be getting lost in translation here. Which I understand, my parents are non-native English speakers, many/most of the family in their generation are as well. I think it is great that you are making the effort to learn here, in a language that might be uncomfortable. If we are using terms that you don't understand because they are "Americanisms", let us know.

The general advice is a 4 week cure/resting time, full stop. Keep them in your house, test them on yourself after that, and don't even give them away before the four weeks, so you know what you will be giving. Most people here advise not selling to *anyone* before making soap for a year, which includes re-selling to another seller, not sure how long you have been making soap, although it seems like not that long? Just slow down and enjoy the learning process.

ETA: Morpheus, I know you don't sell, but perhaps you would be willing to make an exception for a fellow smf'er around Xmas time? Those bars sound great, and I am too impatient (and don't have enough shelf/curing space) to make a Castille/Bastille myself

 

[shunt2011]

I too feel that a 4 week cure minimum before it leaves my house is mandatory. I prefer even longer when possible. I've been making my soaps for my market that doesn't start until June. I want to be sure to provide the very best product I can to my customers and even my friends and family for that matter.

 

[MorpheusPA]

ETA: Morpheus, I know you don't sell, but perhaps you would be willing to make an exception for a fellow smf'er around Xmas time? Those bars sound great, and I am too impatient (and don't have enough shelf/curing space) to make a Castille/Bastille myself

As long as I'm not selling it and you promise not to sue my butt. :mrgreen:

 

[not_ally]

Done, Morpheus, I will provide you with a written, signed waiver! And some of my own soaps, although that might not be such of an incentive

 

[dixiedragon]

Moonday, I think the longer cure time will solve your problem.

To Americans, "vegan" means no animal products - so that would include honey, beeswax and milk. But "vegetarian" means nothing that an animal was killed to get, so many vegetarians will use soap with milk, honey or beeswax but not with lard or tallow.

If your customers would be okay with beeswax, try it at 5%.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Change to soap under customer eyes is a strategy!!! Of course I didn't use it but think to packaging time and transferring and selling time! When I sell soap myself , this time is very short near two week but when I send it to another sellers the time will increase to 4 or 6 week until end user start to use it!

But in post 16 you said that you only 'sell' to family...........

Seriously, forget about selling until you have a product that should be sold. Personally, I do not feel comfortable helping someone who is going to carry on selling a bad product

 

[Moonday]

Thank you all !!!
Thank you not_ally ! your advise was very useful !
I understand that I must sleep my soap more than one mount in house!!!
Really my soaps is not bad! I use of it near one year my self !
Today I tested two batch: one by salt and other by change percentages of oils! I will find result next mount !?!:razz:
The Efficacious Gentleman : I am sell it to my family!!! But I'm designing to start to sell in a great market. I work on silicon molds (and before it I test many other materials!) and a stable natural pigment and distilling essences from leafs , tassels , stem , ... and thinking for a name and a strategy for selling!!!
I live in a country with NO any handmade soap! It's a great opportunity and I don't like lost it. This is near one year that I pay really more than 80% of my wage to buy some things that isn't in my country (I can't buy by internet! International post don't work by my country!) include books (who is expensivest things in my land) and all of this, is not just for fun !
Be sure that I understand what I do!

 

[Dahila]

You need to cure them 8 weeks to have a nice soap which deserve to go to people, I know you have problem with English, many people do.
CURE THE SOAP 8 WEEKS!!!!

sorry for screaming

 

[dixiedragon]

Moonday, I don't actually recommend getting a lot of soap making books. I have found that many of them are full of wonderful pictures but do not have much good information.

This one is a good choice:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/1935652095/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

But it might be tough since it's in English.

 

[topofmurrayhill]

I'm designing to start to sell in a great market. I work on silicon molds (and before it I test many other materials!) and a stable natural pigment and distilling essences from leafs , tassels , stem , ... and thinking for a name and a strategy for selling!!!
I live in a country with NO any handmade soap! It's a great opportunity and I don't like lost it. This is near one year that I pay really more than 80% of my wage to buy some things that isn't in my country (I can't buy by internet! International post don't work by my country!) include books (who is expensivest things in my land) and all of this, is not just for fun !

It sounds like a good idea, and obviously you are putting a lot into it. I wish you the best of luck.

You live in a beautiful place.

 

[not_ally]

Where do you live, Moonday? And TOHM, how did you know? It is indeed beautiful.

Moonday, it is good to have a dream. I think all of us would congratulate you on that, especially given how much of your income - for which you probably work hard - you are investing in it. We all just want for you to make a great product and have great success selling it.

I agree with Dixie, I think you can find all the information you need on the internet - do you have a computer and stable connection at home? Or access to one that you can spend a good bit of time on (inexpensively?) Also, if you are really interesting in buying books, you can buy ones for the kindle - and I think download a kindle app for free so that you can read them on the computer - for considerably cheaper than hard copy ones. For example, a good basic one by Anne Watson in the Kindle version sells for $1.00 on Amazon.com

 

[Cactuslily]

Dear moonday, I commend you on your ambitious endeavor. Since you have the opportunity to tap into a market that is wide open with little competion, do as much reading on the Internet, and watch as many videos you can. Take notes, and keep up with this forum. I've gotten a lot of help here. Set yourself up for the best success. Taking extra time to hone your craft, and getting feedback from your family, will only benefit you in the long run when you start selling to the public. Word of mouth, and reputation are invaluable. Better to take extra time learning what works, what doesn't, developing recipes etc...will only make you more successful. Once public opinion, or reputation is tarnished, it makes it a heck of a lot harder to gain back customer base and trust. I wish you all the best, and success in the future. happy soaping!

 

[Moonday]

Thank you all for kindly advise and Encouragement!
not_ally: I live in Goris a little city in "Holy mountains" in Armenia and work for a lawyer that I have access in his office to internet (in fact internet and PC is part of my wage!!! :razz: ). Situations of war really cut us from the world. I and some other are a little people of a Tribe that die in a Genocide. So in fact I speak to a language that haven't dictionary:razz: At first I translate from Ganabar to Ashkhabar, then translate it to English:-o and Vice versa! I'm trying to learn English but because a late start I have a low success by it!
I test this batches: every batch for 4 time and test them:

 

[dixiedragon]

"I'm trying to learn English but because a late start I have a low success by it!"

I disagree! I think you are doing very well. Certainly better than most American speak any non-English language.

You could become your country's Soap Queen! How cool would that be? And we could all say, "I knew her when...."

 

[Dahila]

Moonday your soaps are beautiful so rustic. I love it!!!
You are doing alright with language. It is nice to know someone from Armenia, the country of many beautiful traditions. I love your way of dressing in traditional outfits, and clay products)
I would buy your soaps

 

[not_ally]

Moonday, I think it is wonderful that you are taking so much trouble to translate back and forth, that must be so frustrating. It would be fantastic if you did become the first/most noted soapmaker in Armenia. Keep coming back, and know that the regulars here (check the number of posts) are experienced, really good at what they do, and will give you excellent advice. They have taught me so much already on this short (so far) soap-making journey. Even some of us newcomers will help you as much as we can

Your English is much better than my versions of the three other languages that I speak (kind of, I sound as if I am about 5 years old in all of them). Congratulations!

I am sorry for the difficulties that you and your people have experienced. But glad that you have the courage to go on and try to create a better world for yourself.