Facial Cleanser for mature sensitive skin?

[ToniO]

Oh wow, I can't imagine how horrifying that would be. I've never had that problem but I know people who have. I'm very glad you found something to help you.

The funny thing was.. I was freaking out when I went to see a dermatologist. I had five quarter sized patches around my head and was thinking I might get more. When I saw my dermatologist for the first time, I see that she is completely bald (and had been since she was a child) and I thought, well if she can deal with having none, what am I freaking out about 5 measly patches?!! It apparently happens a lot with ppl who have eczema, my dad had it a couple of times in his 50's also and I have another patch at the mo that's growing back in. It has helped me both appreciate what I have and not be as attached to it all either. If I do lose it all, I'll live, but I'll be happier if I don't, lol.

 

[ToniO]

Thank you so much. Your website is amazing btw. What does "zero" mean in your names?

I made the 'zero' line for ppl who don't want to do any essential oils. So that line has no smells except for the oils and plant extracts (I use chamomile c02 and calendula c02 [eden botanicals] in all of that line (soap face, skin, hydrosol, bath, lip) and no colors except for the seabuckthorn oil I use to color the soap. I also don't use any fragrance oils in any of my stuff b/c many ppl with eczema (inc me) have reactions with the preservatives used in them, or any colorants that aren't plant-based. I found out years ago with a chemical allergy test that all that stuff is a no-go for me, and it's helped me tremendously.
The website is still getting there, but thank you! I use Square. I found that taking the pictures facing down seems to give me the look I want. I have a cube frame, cover removed, https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MTYBWD3/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1, lights still attached and wrapped to lessen their intensity, set up on my kitchen countertop that I place a plank of wood across and rest my camera tripod on that to get a steady shot. Flowers from either my garden or the store, placed on a corner complete the look.
If you're interested in trying any samples of my stuff to get an idea of what might work or of any oils you might like to try w/o having to buy a whole bottle, dm me and I'll send you some.

 

[AliOop]

@ToniO thank you for sharing your knowledge! I've been unable to use any butters on my face without immediately breaking out - but haven't tried kokum or illipe. I'm going to do a small patch test and see how we do.

Meanwhile, I am a little confused. Your description of your moisturizers says they are water-free, but the ingredient list includes citric acid, as well as extracts of chamomile, calendula, and elderberry fruit. Doesn't the citric acid require water to dissolve? And doesn't the water in those extracts require the inclusion of a preservative? And how are those water-based ingredients incorporated into the butters and oils without an emulsifier?

 

[Chelsea J]

My skin is crazy sensitive (from eczema) and I only use my goat milk superfatted soaps for cleansing. They clean without stripping the skin. I don't give out my recipe b/c sell it but you're welcome to look at the ingredients I use in my soaps (the rose one is my favorite) and water-free face creams to make your own.
I use a mix of fresh goat milk and goat milk powder to bring it up to 38% goat milk but with a liquid reduction, and use kokum butter in there also.
Since I'm allergic to most preservatives, I make water-free moisturizers. Non-comedogenic oils, kokum butter and essential oils whipped together.
The key to not having that oily feeling on your skin is in the amount you use. I tell my customers to wash their face with my soap and either use a hydrosol or leave their skin damp and then use only a half a small pea sized amount of face cream, rub into the fingertips and glide lightly over the face, neck and decolletage. This deposits the tiny amount of moisturizer evenly and you can press/massage it in afterwards. It only takes about 20 seconds to soak in and won't block pores.
Bakuchiol (nature's retinol) is said to help acne but is easier on the skin than retinol. Lotioncrafter sells it (I buy the 99% version) and you only need 0.1%-0.5% in your formula. OIls high in linoleic acid can be helpful also - Black currant, blueberry and strawberry seed oils are said to help with acne and inflammation. The blueberry I buy from Lotioncrafter and the black currant and strawberry from Jedwards (the blueberry and strawberry I made into a face cream for kids with eczema and these oils smell like candy to me!).
Dead Sea Salts can also be amazing for acne. Calming and anti inflammatory. If you don't have the time for a 20 minute soak, you can put a couple of teaspoons in a glass of warm water and soak a face cloth. 5 mins will help calm irritated skin. You can buy the unscented and add a couple of drops of your own essential oils to this if you like.
Good Luck!

I strongly suggest you search CCF for Bakuchiol and it’s one relevant study. There was an interesting discussion had by some of the more educated (phd or higher) members of the group. Especially after reading the discussion, I will not use Bakuchiol in my products - I’ll stick with Retinol.

 

[AliOop]

I strongly suggest you search CCF for Bakuchiol and it’s one relevant study. There was an interesting discussion had by some of the more educated (phd or higher) members of the group. Especially after reading the discussion, I will not use Bakuchiol in my products - I’ll stick with Retinol.

Thank you for that link. I did read the discussion, and found this reply most interesting:

I’ll throw my 2 cents here. I agree with Perry’s suggested study of 100 people. I respectfully disagree with Perry’s claims that Bakuchiol is just a marketing scheme. Yes there are bakuchiols out there that are so diluted that’s not effective, however the real thing is oil soluble.

I formulate with Bakuchiol from Sytheon, it’s 99% concentrated, I use 2% in my formulation. If you use it directly on your skin, it will burn and you’ll get mild skin burn.

Here’s the Chemical name: Phenol, 4- [(1E, 3S)-3-ethenyl-3, 7 -dimethyl-1,6-octadienyl]

I have been using this Bakuchiol in a face oil and yes, I see a difference: Softer fine lines and faded acne scars. Obviously, it is not as powerful as prescription retinol, but it definitely does more than a moisturizer.

 

[ToniO]

I strongly suggest you search CCF for Bakuchiol and it’s one relevant study. There was an interesting discussion had by some of the more educated (phd or higher) members of the group. Especially after reading the discussion, I will not use Bakuchiol in my products - I’ll stick with Retinol.

Thanks for the input, Chelsea. I'd love to read that discussion if there's a way for you to post a link? Most of the studies I've read about Bakuchiol and Retinol have been on the National Center of Biotechnology Information and a few other websites and I've been happy with what I've read about the results of Bakuchiol. As a person with eczema, I have issues with Retinol as have many of my customers. And many of the ingredients that are mixed with the retinol available to purchase, such as polysorbates and the subsequent preservatives used in water containing products are triggers for eczema sufferers. I have had good results with the night serum I use it in, and many of my customers have told me they're happy with it also, since it doesn't cause the reactions they've had with Retinol. I did read that Glycyrrhetinic acid (GA) found in licorice is not good with Bakuchiol. I would love to read about negative perspectives from chemists tho. It's good to stay informed! Here's a link to one study I read about the efficacy of Bakuchiol vs Retinol. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9328396/ .
Also good for ppl to know that there's a big difference between Bakuchiol and Babchi Seed oil, regarding phototoxicity, if they do decide to try it out and that sunscreen is always recc'd with any of these treatments!.

Post edit: Now I know CCF is Chemists Corner Forum!

 

[ToniO]

@ToniO thank you for sharing your knowledge! I've been unable to use any butters on my face without immediately breaking out - but haven't tried kokum or illipe. I'm going to do a small patch test and see how we do.

Meanwhile, I am a little confused. Your description of your moisturizers says they are water-free, but the ingredient list includes citric acid, as well as extracts of chamomile, calendula, and elderberry fruit. Doesn't the citric acid require water to dissolve? And doesn't the water in those extracts require the inclusion of a preservative? And how are those water-based ingredients incorporated into the butters and oils without an emulsifier?

Hi Aliop, The Kokum Butter I buy from Jedwards has citric acid in it https://bulknaturaloils.com/kokum-butter-b3042.html ,so I list it also. The extracts are oil soluble https://www.edenbotanicals.com/chamomile-blue-co2-organic.html , https://www.edenbotanicals.com/calendula-co2.html and the elderberry extract I use as an antimicrobial is also oil-based https://lotioncrafter.com/products/phytocide-elderberry-os?_pos=1&_sid=8f65b4436&_ss=r so they work in my skincare. I've been using them for the past 15+ years and the difference in my skin now vs the on-the-shelf stuff I was using before my diagnosis is night and day!

Kokum and Illipe are awesome butters - I used to use both in different products but have pared it down to just the Kokum these days. It works great for stabilizing the 'fluff' in my face creams and has a super low comedogenic rating - and Cupuacu butter is gold in dry skin creams! I do make sure to blend my 'melted butter with room-temp oil' mix over ice until cold enough to temper, to make sure it doesn't go grainy and then I put it in the freezer a few times between mixes with a balloon whisk until it's solid enough to keep the light fluffy texture for piping.

And as I said in a previous post, going water-free means using just a tiny amount of product. There's not much oil and butter in most water-based moisturizers so applying the tiniest amount of water-free products to damp skin seems to work best. Melt just a couple of grains of rice size to start and glide over entire damp face and neck. If you can still feel it after a minute, you've put on too much!

Thank you for that link. I did read the discussion, and found this reply most interesting:

I’ll throw my 2 cents here. I agree with Perry’s suggested study of 100 people. I respectfully disagree with Perry’s claims that Bakuchiol is just a marketing scheme. Yes there are bakuchiols out there that are so diluted that’s not effective, however the real thing is oil soluble.

I formulate with Bakuchiol from Sytheon, it’s 99% concentrated, I use 2% in my formulation. If you use it directly on your skin, it will burn and you’ll get mild skin burn.

Here’s the Chemical name: Phenol, 4- [(1E, 3S)-3-ethenyl-3, 7 -dimethyl-1,6-octadienyl]

I have been using this Bakuchiol in a face oil and yes, I see a difference: Softer fine lines and faded acne scars. Obviously, it is not as powerful as prescription retinol, but it definitely does more than a moisturizer.

Ahh, I didn't know that CCF was Chemist's Corner Forum!! I always think of it as just Chemist's Corner, lol!

 

[AliOop]

Ahh, I didn't know that CCF was Chemist's Corner Forum!! I always think of it as just Chemist's Corner, lol!

Same! I just assumed she was talking about Chemist's Corner so that's where I went.

Hi Aliop, The Kokum Butter I buy from Jedwards has citric acid in it https://bulknaturaloils.com/kokum-butter-b3042.html ,so I list it also. The extracts are oil soluble https://www.edenbotanicals.com/chamomile-blue-co2-organic.html , https://www.edenbotanicals.com/calendula-co2.html and the elderberry extract I use as an antimicrobial is also oil-based https://lotioncrafter.com/products/phytocide-elderberry-os?_pos=1&_sid=8f65b4436&_ss=r so they work in my skincare. I've been using them for the past 15+ years and the difference in my skin now vs the on-the-shelf stuff I was using before my diagnosis is night and day!

Thank you for clarifying, that's such great info! I had looked up your listed extracts on Eden's Botanicals but must not have scrolled far enough to find the oil-soluble ones. I still wonder how they incorporate CA into a butter, but not our problem, eh?

Kokum and Illipe are awesome butters - I used to use both but have peared it down to just the Kokum these days. It works great for stabilizing the 'fluff' in my face creams and has a super low comedogenic rating - and Cupuacu butter is gold in dry skin creams! I do make sure to blend my 'melted butter with room-temp oil' mix over ice until cold enough to temper, to make sure it doesn't go grainy and then I put it in the freezer a few times between mixes with a balloon whisk until it's solid enough to keep the light fluffy texture for piping.

Everything I use has to be the absolute lowest on the comedogenic scale so I'll probably stick with kokum then.

Fantastic info and really appreciate your generosity in sharing all this.

 

[ToniO]

Same! I just assumed she was talking about Chemist's Corner so that's where I went.


Thank you for clarifying, that's such great info! I had looked up your listed extracts on Eden's Botanicals but must not have scrolled far enough to find the oil-soluble ones. I still wonder how they incorporate CA into a butter, but not our problem, eh?


Everything I use has to be the absolute lowest on the comedogenic scale so I'll probably stick with kokum then.

Fantastic info and really appreciate your generosity in sharing all this.

Right about the Kokum! It is good stuff and they have the box at a really good price so I go with it! If you'd like me to send you any of my mini samples to try to see if you like that texture/style, just dm me. You might hate it and then you'll save yourself the time of wanting to make similar! I have learned a lot on here when I was problem solving my soaps so I'm happy to help others.

 

[Chelsea J]

Thank you for that link. I did read the discussion, and found this reply most interesting:

I’ll throw my 2 cents here. I agree with Perry’s suggested study of 100 people. I respectfully disagree with Perry’s claims that Bakuchiol is just a marketing scheme. Yes there are bakuchiols out there that are so diluted that’s not effective, however the real thing is oil soluble.

I formulate with Bakuchiol from Sytheon, it’s 99% concentrated, I use 2% in my formulation. If you use it directly on your skin, it will burn and you’ll get mild skin burn.

Here’s the Chemical name: Phenol, 4- [(1E, 3S)-3-ethenyl-3, 7 -dimethyl-1,6-octadienyl]

I have been using this Bakuchiol in a face oil and yes, I see a difference: Softer fine lines and faded acne scars. Obviously, it is not as powerful as prescription retinol, but it definitely does more than a moisturizer.

I was actually privately discussing this exact form of Bakuchiol with somebody on CCF. My gut reaction was that it is the Phenol, not the Bakuchiol, that is providing results. Phenol is one strong ingredient; I wish I had the courage to get a Phenol peel…

 

[AliOop]

I was actually privately discussing this exact form of Bakuchiol with somebody on CCF. My gut reaction was that it is the Phenol, not the Bakuchiol, that is providing results. Phenol is one strong ingredient; I wish I had the courage to get a Phenol peel…

I'm not a chemist, nor a trained formulator, so please excuse my ignorance. But my understanding is that Bakuchiol is a phenol. SOURCE

So the mention of "phenol" by that commenter didn't indicate an additional ingredient in the product; it was the INCI for Bakuchiol.

 

[MelissaG]

The funny thing was.. I was freaking out when I went to see a dermatologist. I had five quarter sized patches around my head and was thinking I might get more. When I saw my dermatologist for the first time, I see that she is completely bald (and had been since she was a child) and I thought, well if she can deal with having none, what am I freaking out about 5 measly patches?!! It apparently happens a lot with ppl who have eczema, my dad had it a couple of times in his 50's also and I have another patch at the mo that's growing back in. It has helped me both appreciate what I have and not be as attached to it all either. If I do lose it all, I'll live, but I'll be happier if I don't, lol.

Well my husband has a bald spot on the back of his head and his dad is almost entirely bald sooo... course, not for the same reasons. Sometimes I give him a kiss on his bald spot just to mess with him. lol.

I made the 'zero' line for ppl who don't want to do any essential oils. So that line has no smells except for the oils and plant extracts (I use chamomile c02 and calendula c02 [eden botanicals] in all of that line (soap face, skin, hydrosol, bath, lip) and no colors except for the seabuckthorn oil I use to color the soap. I also don't use any fragrance oils in any of my stuff b/c many ppl with eczema (inc me) have reactions with the preservatives used in them, or any colorants that aren't plant-based. I found out years ago with a chemical allergy test that all that stuff is a no-go for me, and it's helped me tremendously.
The website is still getting there, but thank you! I use Square. I found that taking the pictures facing down seems to give me the look I want. I have a cube frame, cover removed, https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MTYBWD3/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1, lights still attached and wrapped to lessen their intensity, set up on my kitchen countertop that I place a plank of wood across and rest my camera tripod on that to get a steady shot. Flowers from either my garden or the store, placed on a corner complete the look.
If you're interested in trying any samples of my stuff to get an idea of what might work or of any oils you might like to try w/o having to buy a whole bottle, dm me and I'll send you some.

I have square. Haven't updated it in quite a while. Then I've been forced to basically stop everything for a while. Broken ankles aren't conducive to standing and lifting and even driving.

Same! I just assumed she was talking about Chemist's Corner so that's where I went.


Thank you for clarifying, that's such great info! I had looked up your listed extracts on Eden's Botanicals but must not have scrolled far enough to find the oil-soluble ones. I still wonder how they incorporate CA into a butter, but not our problem, eh?


Everything I use has to be the absolute lowest on the comedogenic scale so I'll probably stick with kokum then.

Fantastic info and really appreciate your generosity in sharing all this.

Maybe that's why my face is breaking out. I love shea, but for the rest of the body. Since my normal soap has 20% shea, that might be causing issues with my face.

Hmm, interesting.

 

[ToniO]

Well my husband has a bald spot on the back of his head and his dad is almost entirely bald sooo... course, not for the same reasons. Sometimes I give him a kiss on his bald spot just to mess with him. lol.

I have square. Haven't updated it in quite a while. Then I've been forced to basically stop everything for a while. Broken ankles aren't conducive to standing and lifting and even driving.

Maybe that's why my face is breaking out. I love shea, but for the rest of the body. Since my normal soap has 20% shea, that might be causing issues with my face.

Hmm, interesting.

Yes, it's so much more acceptable for men to go bald but thankfully there are some brave women out there, paving the way for the rest of us if it happens!! Minoxidil has been pretty amazing tho, phew!

Oh my, I didn't know you broke your ankles! I broke two toes at Christmas (and sprained two on the other foot!) and that stopped me from doing so much but breaking ankles is crazy! I hope they're on the mend.

I used Shea butter early on but found that it used to trigger my eczema. Then I read that it can cause eczema for those who are allergic to latex and it made sense.

 

[Chelsea J]

I'm not a chemist, nor a trained formulator, so please excuse my ignorance. But my understanding is that Bakuchiol is a phenol. SOURCE

So the mention of "phenol" by that commenter didn't indicate an additional ingredient in the product; it was the INCI for Bakuchiol.

Thank you! I was unaware that Bakuchiol was a Phenol. Argh - there’s so much conflicting information! It seems impossible to get one concise (and correct) answer. I will bring this up with a plant geneticist I communicate with. He’s dead against Bakuchiol, but I happen to admire Phenol as an ingredient.

Again, much gratitude for the information. Back to the drawing board on Bakuchiol I go…

 

[AliOop]

I received an email today from NDA, advertising their sale on skincare ingredients. Out of curiosity, I looked at their bakuchiol, but was disappointed to find that it is mixed with propanediol. I like propanediol in my lotions, but looking at the SDS, it appears that this mix can vary in the concentration of both ingredients - which isn't acceptable to me.

So, I looked on MakingCosmetics. Yup, they have bakuchiol, mixed only with water. Price = $98.80 per fl oz./30ml.

 

[Shelley D]

I received an email today from NDA, advertising their sale on skincare ingredients. Out of curiosity, I looked at their bakuchiol, but was disappointed to find that it is mixed with propanediol. I like propanediol in my lotions, but looking at the SDS, it appears that this mix can vary in the concentration of both ingredients - which isn't acceptable to me.

So, I looked on MakingCosmetics. Yup, they have bakuchiol, mixed only with water. Price = $98.80 per fl oz./30ml.

I'm still voting "keep it natural ~ try oil cleansing"

 

[Chelsea J]

I received an email today from NDA, advertising their sale on skincare ingredients. Out of curiosity, I looked at their bakuchiol, but was disappointed to find that it is mixed with propanediol. I like propanediol in my lotions, but looking at the SDS, it appears that this mix can vary in the concentration of both ingredients - which isn't acceptable to me.

So, I looked on MakingCosmetics. Yup, they have bakuchiol, mixed only with water. Price = $98.80 per fl oz./30ml.

There’s a very interesting discussion on Chemist’s Corner regarding Bakuchiol and the one study conducted on the ingredient. There were only six participants in the study. Regardless, the study has been cited almost 100 times! What I inferred from the discussion is that Bakuchiol, at best, is an expensive antioxidant. But, I encourage you to read the discussion and draw your own conclusions.

As I learned on this forum, Bakuchiol is a phenol. I’ve yet to take that back to the Chemist’s Corner discussion.

 

[MelissaG]

I've tried the products with Bakuchiol. I don't know if it works just yet but I do know my skin hasn't had a bad reaction to it.Time will tell.

 

[AliOop]

I'm still voting "keep it natural ~ try oil cleansing"

I have tried oil cleansing, but have not found an oil that works for me yet. Coconut, olive, avocado, and sweet almond all give me terrible breakouts; coconut oil also makes my skin peel. Cleansing with castor oil makes my skin look amazing, but also makes my facial hair grow like crazy.

Any other suggestions?

I've tried the products with Bakuchiol. I don't know if it works just yet but I do know my skin hasn't had a bad reaction to it.Time will tell.

That's good to know! I found some much less expensive bakuchiol on Lotioncrafter. I'm still comparing the two and trying to figure out what's different. The expensive one sold by MakingCosmetics says it includes water, but also says (like all the others) that bakuchiol isn't water soluble. Huh?

 

[justsomeguy]

I have tried oil cleansing, but have not found an oil that works for me yet. Coconut, olive, avocado, and sweet almond all give me terrible breakouts; coconut oil also makes my skin peel. Cleansing with castor oil makes my skin look amazing, but also makes my facial hair grow like crazy.

Any other suggestions?

I'm not OP, but grapefruit seed oil might be a good one...
And then there's grape seed oil too...