Demystifying Scent Notes

[Mobjack Bay]

I’m interested in learning more about blending scents. Sure, I understand what it means when a scent has a citrus note, but how do I get a scent that smells “powdery” and what does it mean if a scent note smells balsamic or like tonka? I found useful information on one supplier‘s website, plus they have a glossary of terms that is useful. Are there other online sources of information that you find helpful?

https://www.perfumersworld.com/view.php?pro_id=8VQ00445

https://www.perfumersworld.com/glossary.php

 

[ResolvableOwl]

I've seen somewhere™ online a database with an extensive breakdown of EOs into hydrocarbons/alcohols/aldehydes/ketones/esters of linear/cyclic/aromatic mono-/sesqui-/diterpenes. As well as descriptions about the typical scent notes, evaporation speed, oxidation rate/shelf life, chemical resistance, etc. Not quite sure if they included information about non-terpene/terpenoid fragrances (like the coumarin in tonka, vanilla, amber, bergapten, fruit esters, eugenol, estragol …).
But of course stupid me has forgotten where that was, and not saved the link, to be on the safe side.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

OMG, when you find it again, link it!

ETA: Here’s another site that has a useful definition for “powdery”

Powdery is a word used to describe a fragrance produced by a combination of a heavy, sweet or woody note with a citrus, fruit or light green note.

https://www.theperfumedcourt.com/glossary.aspx#H2N400239

 

[glendam]

For me, musk smells powdery. But I can see it also being a blend of a sweet note and wood note. I have the musk fragrance formulator from WSP and they describe it as a blend of sandalwood and amber. Tonka makes me think of vanilla (just learned that Tonka beans are banned for cooking?), and because I had a balsam pine fragrance formulator, if I see the word balsamic I imagine wood/pine tree aromas rather than balsamic vinegar, though my mind also goes there.

I listed a few links about essential oils and fragrance blending in this post, it is a very chatty post but you can find the links about halfway through, right above where this is listed:
Top notes 15-25%

Middle notes 30-40%

Base notes 45-55%

 

[Mobjack Bay]

Thanks Glenda! I have a lot of reading to do!

@ResolvableOwl I just bumped into this pdf on EO chemistry.

 

[cherrybleach]

Hey! Try the Good Scents Company database (I think this might be what you were remembering @ResolvableOwl ?) - it's a federated database that covers thousands of aromas both natural and synthetic. It's kind of clunky, but there are a couple of places that have created their own search framework using GSC data. I can't remember where they are offhand. I just like the original.

Edit: On second read, @ResolvableOwl , I don't think this is the database you were referring to, but it's a wonderful resource nonetheless.

For learning aromas try the Jean Carles method! You can find a link to an article with the charts for the Jean Carles method here (in first paragraph, look for article shared by Michelle Krell Kydd titled "Exposing the Perfumer", originally published in Perfumer & Flavorists, Vol 32, May 2007).

IIRC some of Jean Carles writings are linked to by the PerfumersWorld website you cited. They are indispensible if you want to learn more about aromas and perfume creation. IIRC also, they also link to some articles by Ed Roudnitska which are also *extremely useful.

Edit: My bad, they are located on the PerfumersApprentice website. Here's a link to the links for "The Method of Jean Carles" parts 1-3. I can't recall where I found the Roudnitska articles, but do look up his writings. He's lovely.

If you want to go deeper about the history of the development and use of synthetic aromachemicals, including descriptions, check out "Perfumery: Evolution of its techniques," parts 1-6 by Arcadio Boix Camps, pub 1985-1999. You can find all of the parts on the Perfumer and Flavorists website, here is a link to part 1.

"Perfumery: its manufacture and use," (Morfit, 1852), chapter 5, "The Raw Materials" is old-fashioned in scope but contains some useful descriptions of aromas. You can find it at the internet archive. Or just used this link.

Also check out "Perfume and Flavor Materials of Natural Origin" by Steffen Arctander (Orchard Innovations, 1960). There are bootleg copies out there on the web that are easily findable. It offers aroma descriptions and explanations of the origins and processes used to extract hundreds of natural aromas.

I have a bunch more sources but don't want to overwhelm anyone. These were nice for me for learning the basics. Also the Basenotes forum for independent perfume creators is a good resource, just be make sure you've done your research before asking a question. They can be vicious! (in a good way).

Edit: grammar

 

[Mobjack Bay]

Thanks! @cherrybleach. I think I know what I’ll be doing over the winter break this year. As it turns out, i got started down this rabbit hole by following a link on the Basenotes forum.

 

[ResolvableOwl]

(just learned that Tonka beans are banned for cooking?)

Yes, that's truly annoying. Coumarine is not harmless, yes, but christmas biscuits without tonka beans or cassia? No, that's out of question. I'd have greatest respect for the EOs though.

Top notes 15-25%

Middle notes 30-40%

Base notes 45-55%

That somewhat reads like the well-tried 3-6-1 rule just upside down? I've found base notes (vetiver, cedarwood, juniper) already somewhat overpowering at >15%, can't really imagine to use three or four times of them.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

Tonka beans for cooking? The internet says it has been banned in the US since the 1950s.

 

[glendam]

@ResolvableOwl I have never used vetiver but I read that it is really strong, whoever I was reading had said to just dip a toothpick on it and use that to add to the blend (must have been a perfume blend).
I do not follow that suggested percentage rule all the time either. If I want the citrus to be strong especially, I might reverse that. But I suppose in a perfume, where the top notes will be the first ones to go, it would make sense.

@Mobjack Bay I read that the FDA did a movie like capture of tonka beans at a restaurant where a chef was still using them

 

[Arimara]

@Mobjack Bay You just HAD to open up this rabbit hole.

 

[ResolvableOwl]

Tonka beans for cooking? The internet says it has been banned in the US since the 1950s.

How this? The WWW was only invented in 1989.

@ResolvableOwl I just bumped into this pdf on EO chemistry.

Wow. This will keep me busy for a while . The content is quite similar to what I had been referring to (just that it's a book, not a website), and is even much more exhaustive in several aspects. I've saved it, in case Dōterra decides to no longer provide it at some time.

In general, quite some hot sources from you and @cherrybleach ! The one thing I'm not entirely sure about is: As established and exhaustive perfume theory is, my impression is that it doesn't entirely match all the needs of soapmaking/not necessarily put the focus on the same things. I don't need an elaborate fragrance pyramid with solvent blends, fixatives, and base note accords sticking on my washed hands for one whole day or longer. On the other hand, a perfumer rarely has to care about lye stability and keeping an olfactory balance over months in an aerated, alkaline environment.
Knowing about perfumers' craftsmanship is highly valuable without doubt, but it's not the very last word when it comes to compose soap scents. We can profit a lot from them, but we have to keep in mind that it's to some degree a misuse of this knowledge, more an orientation than laws.

@glendam Hmm yes, the legendary toothpick. Vetiver really is a beast. Another reason is that it's very thick (think of castor oil), and drip bottles just don't make sense for it. Then, it is a really “slow” scent that is hardly noticeable in the beginning, but will stick around for a very long time – it's so easy to overdose when composing a scent by “following the nose”.

 

[ResolvableOwl]

Hey! Try the Good Scents Company database

OT: Can someone please help me out why on earth (and beyond) they're linking NASA's Mars weather report on this site?

 

[Mobjack Bay]

Any chemical alteration of the EO aside, I once tried to figure out if there as an actual explanation for the “anchoring” idea. I started scouring the perfumery discussions for anything related. Perfumers touch on partial pressures and what happens in a headspace when discussing how perfumes age. At the least, it’s a starting place for understanding why eo fragranced soaps stored in closed cardboard boxes retain scent longer compared with soap left out in the open. A physical chemist friend, now gone, used Kow and Henry’s Law constant to predict the movement of organic pollutants between air and water. Until I retire, I will never have enough time to explore how/if that helps to explain what sticks and what doesn’t. Then there’s the chemical structure and reactivity of eos. Maybe the DoTerra pdf will make it easier to assimilate some of that vast body of information. Or, maybe someone else with a good chemistry background will get interested enough to dive in

ETA: after a few hours of reading skimming the useful resources linked above, my online search efforts have been greatly improved. With clary sage on my mind (in a different thread), I learned that its unique scent is due to the diterpene sclareol. Like lavender, the EO is mostly linalyl-acetate and linalool, but with a special something.

 

[ScentimentallyYours]

I have a book purchased in 2002 with good information, The Chemistry of Fragrances by Pybus and Snell. I believe e-books are available through Google, but I like having a paper Book to thumb through and highlight. Information on personal care products, including soaps and detergents, is included in one chapter.
https://www.amazon.com/Chemistry-Fragrances-RSC-Paperbacks/dp/0854045287

 

[cherrybleach]

@Mobjack Bay I came over here from Basenotes as well Wanted desperately to become an independent natural perfumer but rose, sandalwood, jasmine are so fundamental to scent creation and SO EXPENSIVE, so started doing soap because of its propensity for cheaper essential oils.

To speak to the points re: soap and perfume raised by @ResolvableOwl and @Mobjack Bay, I found and attached a page in "An Introduction to Perfumery" by Tony Curtis and David G Williams 2nd ed, 2001 (someone told me this was the textbook they use in Grasse but don't quote me on that) - one of the 4-5 pages dedicated to soap in the whole book (!) that touches briefly on the issues with aromachemicals and their diffusion, discoloration, and degradation in soap.

I have yet to come across a really good resource for the intersection of soap and perfume. The soap books talk about perfume for a couple of pages, while the perfume books talk about soap for a couple of pages. We need depth, people!

I also dug around and found my copy of "Perfume" by William I Kaufman, 1974, which has a set of the Jean Carles charts and I am attaching them to this msg as well, tho they are slightly updated from the ones I linked to above. These charts are more granular. Truthfully I prefer the earlier charts as they are more concise, but the method is the same. The vertical columns are studies in contrast, and the horizontal rows are studies in similarities. Apologies for harping on the charts, but I did the natural materials study (thanks libertynatural.com) a few years ago and it changed my life lol. Have been slowly collecting the synthetic aromachemicals (thanks creatingperfume.com) and hope to start that study soon.

Regarding fixative EOs for soapmaking, I've had the best luck with Atlas cedar, clary sage, patchouli, benzoin, and ylang-ylang (canaga, which IIRC comes from the last presses of ylang-ylang is a standard fragrance material for soapmaking).

The top/middle/base pyramid can get all turned around in soap. Like the citrus notes are top notes in perfumery but in soap orange stays forever, lemon has so-so sticking power, and Bergamot .. forget about it!

Tried for a while to find a nice rosemary-mint blend where the rosemary doesn't disappear completely, one day I threw some Atlas Cedar in there and voila! The rosemary stuck around. I've since found Atlas Cedar to be an unobtrusive all-around fixative for me when I do herbaceous/agrestic blends. I don't have to be too careful with % and it's cheaper than clary sage. But clary sage is lovely, and sometimes you really need it.

Meanwhile ylang-ylang and geranium are considered middle notes in perfumery but for me in soap they have fixative properties and can stick like hell. I've also had good luck with lavandin, classified as a top/mid-note, but it sticks much better than lavender and seems to act as a mild fixative for lemon.

Sometimes I'll use a FO like WSP's Sandalwood and blend it with EOs. Am hoping to someday stumble upon an original FO/EO blend that packs a punch.

What have you guys discovered to work for you as fixatives? Have you found upon any EO or FO/EO blends that really work for you or do not work for you in soap?

Edit: @ScentimentallyYours that book looks so good. Thank you for the link. Buying it now...

 

[ResolvableOwl]

R A B B I T H O L E

Annoyed by contradictions about things like scent strength, longevity, or ranking into the pyramid scheme. But your points & sources suggest that it's really not that easy, but a fundamental problem. I'm glad that it's not my fault (nor necessarily of the manufacturer) that some EO behaves differently than sources from a foreign discipline might suggest. And, of course some clever people have already been that far & further, you just have to know where to look.

100% agree with your

We need depth, people!

An important recurrent entry point for me is
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/longest-lasting-eos.77315/page-4#post-884722to profit from the patient diligence of some SMF members, to bridge the gap between immediate scent and development over curing time.

 

[Peachy Clean Soap]

I’m interested in learning more about blending scents. Sure, I understand what it means when a scent has a citrus note, but how do I get a scent that smells “powdery” and what does it mean if a scent note smells balsamic or like tonka? I found useful information on one supplier‘s website, plus they have a glossary of terms that is useful. Are there other online sources of information that you find helpful?

https://www.perfumersworld.com/view.php?pro_id=8VQ00445
View attachment 61917
https://www.perfumersworld.com/glossary.php

Now I gotta try Tonka Bean... this sounds amazing. on amazon 3-4 whole beans are around 12.00 bucks. Now i'm looking into an absolute which is ready to use. Hmm decisions decisions .

 

[Peachy Clean Soap]

@ResolvableOwl I have never used vetiver but I read that it is really strong, whoever I was reading had said to just dip a toothpick on it and use that to add to the blend (must have been a perfume blend).
I do not follow that suggested percentage rule all the time either. If I want the citrus to be strong especially, I might reverse that. But I suppose in a perfume, where the top notes will be the first ones to go, it would make sense.

@Mobjack Bay I read that the FDA did a movie like capture of tonka beans at a restaurant where a chef was still using them

I to read that article of the chef & use of "Tonka Beans" . Interesting enough US needs to re-classify the use of Tonka Beans. Theirs some interesting possible propaganda in regards to banning this wonderful magical bean.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

This Lebermuth EO reference document was mentioned recently by @ScentimentallyYours in another thread. It doesn’t give a breakdown of the oil constituents, but the odor/scent descriptions for the ~100 EOs included are useful. On the upside/downside, there are also pretty color photos of the source material. Does anyone know of a list like this in table form?