Cure time

[Fishel Tessler]

I'm a newbie, 5 batches in.
If I don't cut a batch into bars, how do you figure cure time? (Is it called a soap log?)

For those who will wonder why, for sanitary reasons... thankfully I host many guests and would like them to be able to shave off a slice and use that.

 

[Soaped]

I'm a newbie, 5 batches in.
If I don't cut a batch into bars, how do you figure cure time? (Is it called a soap log?)

For those who will wonder why, for sanitary reasons... thankfully I host many guests and would like them to be able to shave off a slice and use that.

I cannot give you a definite answer about cure times but I can say that in my experience if soap takes too long to be cut it may be extremely hard to cut or crumble when cut.

If you cut the soap into small sample size pieces then the guest may be able to use as needed.

 

[MelissaG]

Cure time doesn't change. It will be four to six weeks. If you wait to cut it into bars, it will be too hard to cut if it's cold process. We tend to use log and loaf interchangeably.

You may like to make hotel sized bars, or you can create thin slices yourself. If you leave the people to do it, they won't know how much they need.

 

[Ekuzo]

I agree it's better to cut it. If not cut, it will be much more difficult to cure properly since the water will have more trouble evaporating from the inside of the loaf - even if it cures eventually, it will take longer.

Curing time depends on the recipe. 4 weeks is the bare minimum for some, for others it's much more - and those numbers are true when it's cut in bars. I don't think it's possible to give exact cure time for curing a log, I would advise against that.

Even if you wait long enough and it cures, there's the problem with cutting the loaf when it's already hard. Whether cutting or shaving off slices, the result won't be as expected. It will either be impossible to cut, or one will end up with ugly broken pieces of soap and a lot of crumbs

 

[Fishel Tessler]

I cannot give you a definite answer about cure times but I can say that in my experience if soap takes too long to be cut it may be extremely hard to cut or crumble when cut.

If you cut the soap into small sample size pieces then the guest may be able to use as needed.

First off..thank you @Soaped for picking up the post.
I'm hearing that hardness, making it difficult or unsightly to self serve, will be the issue...
As possible solutions 1) is it possible to make the fully cured loaf softer? 2) what are your thoughts on a stainless steel fruit peeler as a slicing mechanism on typical hardness loafs?

 

[Ephemerella]

So, I'll be a voice of dissent and say it really boils down to your soap recipe, the conditions in which it is kept a whole loaf, and the duration of time its expected to be used.

I make a very high coconut oil and shea butter soap. Mine is firm enough to cut after 8 hours, but soft enough to shave, cut into little pieces or carve, etc, a year later. I am constantly cutting up old bars as I experiment with new packaging ideas, etc. Unless I make a boo-boo and soap too cool, mine does not crumble or get too hard to cut with a quality stainless steel chef's knife. Mine stays the texture of extremely firm cheddar cheese for a year or more.

Now, other recipes will have different results, salt bars for example, would likely prove quite difficult to cut later on down the road.

Additionally, while I have never left a loaf whole for more than a day, I do frequently chunk up a loaf into 10 oz hunks, to experiment with at a later date. When I cut open a large chunk of soap say a few weeks or months later, its tacky and sticky on the inside for a few hours until it dries.

I'm sure the soap would loose water weight faster in smaller bars, but it hasn't effected the feel of the product as far as I can tell.

What might occur, given enough time however, is warping. Depending on factors like your loaf size, amount of water in your recipe, etc., your loaf may twist or buckle or warp over time as it loses water weight.

Finally, where you keep this loaf for your associates to use will also play a factor... if it's constantly in a humid environment, like a bathroom that has little to no air circulation versus a wide open space with lots of moving, dry air.

So, my advice would be to try and see. Pick a recipe that you feel works for your needs and desires, make a loaf and then try using it,. Its really the only way to find out and troubleshoot, as, as I've illustrated above, there are just too many variables to have cut and dry answer.

As a side note, I love the idea of self-serve single use soap shavings for guests, I think its very cute, and a clever way to replace other single use hand cleansers like liquid pump soap, etc.

My question however is to the issue of sanitation: If you expect your guests to carve or slice off a chunk of soap for their own personal cleaning needs, won't each of these guests be using the same utensil with an unwashed hand to obtain the sliver of soap?

 

[akseattle]

@Fishel Tessler, I agree with @Ephemerella that there are recipes that will stay soft enough to cut for long periods of time. I don't say that from personal experience, but because a girlfriend of mine said she bought some handmade soap that was sold by the ounce. She said she just cut off the chunk the size she wanted and paid for that chunk of soap. It didn't occur to me to ask if I could look at it. But, now I'm curious and I will ask her WHERE she bought it and what kind of a cutting utensil was used. I understood she cut and bought bar sized pieces. I assume that for smaller indivdual pieces, you'd make a shorter skinnier loaf so that instead of a really thin piece 2"x3", it would be more like a 1" x 1" log.

 

[DeeAnna]

I would not let guests slice their own soap. While this might in theory seem a charming thing to do, it can be a mess in practice.

People won't take just what they need for their stay with you. Slices won't be nicely cut so the remaining loaf will look untidy. Children, if present, WILL handle and play with the soap.

You need to ensure the soap stays sanitary and tidy for all, and you need to ensure appropriate portion control.

Not to mention soap left in a loaf does not cure as quickly as it does in bar form. Evaporation is a necessary first step in the curing process and the rate is proportional to surface area.

 

[paradisi]

And they *will* cut themselves. That's just human nature.

If you want portion control though, making guest sized bars seems a whole lot simpler.

 

[akseattle]

@Fishel Tessler , I hope you are not discouraged by the various cautionary comments you have received. Your proposal is a creative option for boutique lodging. You won’t know if this wins over your guests or has them wishing you’d just given them a guest bar until you try it.

If there is enough space on the bathroom vanity, you can display options- a small log on a beautiful little tray with an attractive vegetable peeler. (I might have to peel for awhile before getting enough soap peels to wash this old bod …) You could also have a small bowl of attractive guest soaps in various interesting shapes and colors – ducks, dolphins, shells, roses , astronauts …. Whatever your theme might be, and then some straight up guest bars.

I don’t think it will be that hard to find (or come up with) a recipe that stays soft but firm for a long time. As @Ephemerella says, she has one.

It occurs to me that I made such a batch about 6 weeks ago. My normal recipe seized so bad (due to combo of fragrance oil and too many additives) that I added at least one cup of boiling water into a 1000g batch of batter. I was then able to chop it up, and soften it enough to scoop and press it into a mold. It looks like meatloaf, but an actual recipe that wasn't an accident should be more attractive.

Out of curiosity, I went down to my basement just now, I tried shaving off some slices with a vegetable peeler. No problem!! I also tried cutting it with a small appetizer knife. No problem!!! So, I think what you want to do is completely doable. The question will be whether, in the end, it works out as you envisioned.

In case you are wondering, my recipe for my 1000 gram loaf that is still soft was: 40% Lard, 20 % Coconut oil, 6% Tallow, 4% Shea butter, 23% Olive oil, 7% Castor Oil. Then, too much espresso grinds, too much oatmeal, a fragrance oil that seizes so bad it turns into a rock, then at least a cup of boiling water. I have wondered if my soap might get moldy from so much excess water and being soft so long. No mold yet. and the best thing about this soap so far is it smells great!

I think you can probably find a recipe on the internet that is tried and true, and for the purpose you suggest. Good luck and keep us posted!!

But, I’m just saying that what you propose seems doable. No one is going to get cut on either the vegetable peeler or appetizer knife I used. It's true some guests may take more than they'll use while at your place, but that might be a compliment and good advertising. But, don't give up on your idea until until you"ve tried and find it doesn't work for you!

 

[artemis]

I made "single use" soaps by using a veggie peeler. The problem was, It was a mess to use. The pieces were either too small or too big. I ended up with little random bits of soap in the basin and of the sink. This can cause some future problems with your drain. If we're talking about veggie peeling soap while in the shower bath, the person would have to go back to the loaf to get more soap throughout their shower. Which means the loaf would have to be in the shower and handled with wet hands.

When you are dealing with multiple human beings, I'm afraid you have to look at what the worst case scenarios are. As was mentioned before that includes children handling the loaf (or worse: the cutting tool), the soap not cutting properly, even a guest taking the entire loaf home with them because they think the whole thing is a gift.

 

[Marebear]

My recommendation would be to use a wire cheese cutter and slice off small guest bars. I do not know if you are running a business but there could be some liability with giving someone a sharp knife and letting then cut off their slice of soap. I am working with a small business and this is what they have decided. A cellophane envelope of 4" by 6", making a small cut in one end for scent, a 3/8" of soap, and sealing it with their logo sticker. That way the guest can choose from the scents they have picked. I also have a vegetable peeler in my kitchen that is very sharp and I wouldn't let anyone use it before warning them. Cutting their own might be charming, but hotels give out individual soaps for a reason.

 

[Fishel Tessler]

You guys are wonderful, I appreciate both the very realistic responses and the encouragement to explore.
It's a private home, guests aren't charged, I live close to a spiritual leader and host his guests... marketability is not top of mind but it does still need to be pleasant to use.
My youngest is 10, I'm not too worried about his using a peeler and the guests are upper teens to great-grandparents.

Sanitation wise, I will have to think of what to keep the loaf in, such that it's secure accessible and has drainage.
Moving forward, I'm going to try take a shaving from an oversized bar and see what the showerability is...if that's not pleasant then it'll be a toss up between trying a cheese cutter for self service or hotel sized bars next.
Maybe shavings will be good for hand washing but I'll have to get the misses blessing on trying that.

Either way I'm grateful for the journey...I got into soap making because I wanted to save a few dollars on guests showers while offering a superior product..alas, it may very possibly be that like other brain childs the result, while lovely, will not be what I had hoped for.
The down side is still lovely soap and I doubt I'll be going back to the commercial soaps personally... and hope for the day my better/wiser half compliments them.

Again, you guys are wonderful and I'll keep you updated. 1st on showerability of shavings and then...who knows

 

[Ephemerella]

@Fishel Tessler, I am so grateful you're bringing us along on your journey, I'm excited to hear about your findings. And, I love your photo of the Kotel and the lovely sentiment.

 

[AliOop]

You guys are wonderful, I appreciate both the very realistic responses and the encouragement to explore.
It's a private home, guests aren't charged, I live close to a spiritual leader and host his guests... marketability is not top of mind but it does still need to be pleasant to use.
My youngest is 10, I'm not too worried about his using a peeler and the guests are upper teens to great-grandparents.

Sanitation wise, I will have to think of what to keep the loaf in, such that it's secure accessible and has drainage.
Moving forward, I'm going to try take a shaving from an oversized bar and see what the showerability is...if that's not pleasant then it'll be a toss up between trying a cheese cutter for self service or hotel sized bars next.
Maybe shavings will be good for hand washing but I'll have to get the misses blessing on trying that.

Either way I'm grateful for the journey...I got into soap making because I wanted to save a few dollars on guests showers while offering a superior product..alas, it may very possibly be that like other brain childs the result, while lovely, will not be what I had hoped for.
The down side is still lovely soap and I doubt I'll be going back to the commercial soaps personally... and hope for the day my better/wiser half compliments them.

Again, you guys are wonderful and I'll keep you updated. 1st on showerability of shavings and then...who knows

What if you kept charge of the soap loaf, and cut off small pieces for them when they arrived? You could put it by the sink with a note that these will be replenished upon request, and that they are welcome to take home any bits that are left when they depart.

 

[Fishel Tessler]

I'm a newbie, 5 batches in.
If I don't cut a batch into bars, how do you figure cure time? (Is it called a soap log?)

For those who will wonder why, for sanitary reasons... thankfully I host many guests and would like them to be able to shave off a slice and use that.

So using a vegetable peeler to make soap slices was not in my opinion desirable but using it for hand wash was good, it might become a thing if I can figure out a good way to store the bar and a child safe peeler