CP Felted Soap Problem

[newbie]

I don't really have anything new to add. I needed to comment that the DOS soap is ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING because I've never seen anything like that.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

I think this is how I am going to handle things from now on. I'll just go into lurk mode, and not offend people any more.

I think that's where many newbies end up...

 

[randycoxclemson]

I'm not advocating that people avoid replying to newbie statements about selling soap. I think those new soapers need to know that they should go slow, just as they need to know the basics of making soap, or need to know about certain fatty acids being better for felted soaps and all the other wisdom people here have to impart.

I was just saying that a nicer tone in doing that will keep new people here longer. And then maybe they can start to impart wisdom back to the community. You never can tell.

To the person who said they have always had a rough time getting their point across without sounding blunt, oh do I ever know that feeling.

And about that nasty soap, that's hideous and I shouldn't have looked at it after dinner.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

The point being, Randy - kc thought that he wasn't being offensive. If he had made it sound even nicer then to him it might well have sounded far too over the top and possibly comically fawning. Even then, there is no guarantee that the op wouldn't bounce off with an offended flick of the tail.

Many people here have "been on the receiving end" if this bluntness and yet are still here contributing and enjoying. If they can, do we really need to coddle every single diva that stamps a foot and holds their breath?

 

[Cindy2428]

If you haven't seen this, I think it's appropriate.....

Micah Taylor - The Millennial Song
https://www.facebook.com/troy.hooper.790/videos/vb.1841360253/10204603450606492/?type=2&theater

 

[dixiedragon]

I think this is how I am going to handle things from now on. I'll just go into lurk mode, and not offend people any more.

I hope you don't intend to withdraw from the forum! Randy has posted a whopping 51 times. I do not consider him/her to be a valued member of this forum. I do consider you to be a valued member of this forum with thoughtful and interesting things to contribute.

Also, I think it's just flat-out common sense that if you've successfully made something a few times doesn't mean you're ready to go into business!

 

[cmzaha]

Apparently many of these people that complain about this forum have not visited The Dish which is the other site I am a member of. You want upfront say it as it is people go there. Like this forum it has a wealth of information especially with lotions but never ask for someone to give you a recipe...no I never did that, but had a member think it was her responsibility to police our website and inform me x and x was wrong. Instead of leaving I simply informed her she was not hired to police my website and keep her comments to herself. It solved the problem. I do not visit there often because they are geared to other B&B products more so than soap. But I received tremendous help with lotion making. Yes it can take a "thick skin" and that goes for almost any forum. If we baby everyone they will not learn and we will soaps being sold like the dossy mush posted above. Hopefully it was okay to mention the other site name.

 

[dixiedragon]

Some people take any sort of criticism as mean. They expect to post and receive nothing but praise and accolades.

 

[Cellador]

I am new here, but one of things that I like about this forum is that everyone seems willing to help, even if helping means saying things that someone might not want to hear. I think it would be worse to seek advice and have no responses because everyone was afraid of being offensive.

I have joined a couple of forums in the past, and this is one of the nicest I've seen. I have yet to see someone start cursing or making insults, which is, sadly, very common in most communities.

 

[penelopejane]

I visit the dish but have yet to make a contribution.

 

[AKjulz]

I wish I had been a part of a forum like this when I started soaping years ago. I was one of those naive individuals that listened to her not so knowledgeable mentor and sold WAY too soon. I think it's vital that newbies be told that much research and time be committed before presenting to the public. I was recently corrected on this forum regarding something I'm doing wrong and instead of getting offended and pissed off because they were blunt, I took the correction and am learning more and fixing my mistake. So thanks to all those wise and knowledgeable individuals out there!

 

[Susie]

No, they weren't. Just because others are even ruder and more brash does not make your statements in any way "kind." I'm not choosing you to pick on, you just happened to be the most recent example of this type of bad behavior on this site.


Keep that in mind.

Just because he did not pat them on the hand and tell them that everything will turn out OK, does not mean that he is rude. Telling people the truth is its own kindness. ESPECIALLY if it keeps someone from selling bad soap.

I think this is how I am going to handle things from now on. I'll just go into lurk mode, and not offend people any more.

No, sir, please do not. You are a valid, valued contributor to this forum. You have helped more people than you have offended, by far.

And thank goodness I was not at the center of one firestorm, for a nice change.

I really hate that people take constructive criticism so badly.

 

[cmzaha]

^^^totally agree with Susie. LOL, you slipping Susie?

 

[cherrycoke216]

PenelopeJane, she's moving on to an B&B business, and her website stop updating, I doubt I'll get my money back.

On a second thought, though I think most of us would not like diva or cry baby, but what if it's a depressed person or have mental illness, or with some disability? Would our members' constructive criticism make them more depressed or go cuckoo, or feel unaccepted by society? Then Randy might actually make a point. Though I don't know if a more neutral tone or dial down a bit will make a difference to the response of these people mentioned above. But I think the society might tolerate them MORE (than same behavior from average Joe or Jane ) and be EVEN MORE GENTLE.

Just a random thought after reading Saponificarian's post.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

I can't (or won't) base my interactions with people on the possibility that they are mentally ill or anything in that direction, unless they state that up front and then it is not an assumption any more. That said, if someone is in a position that they can't take the sort of example here, how would they react if someone contacted them after buying dodgy products? Surely a little bit of a struggle here would be better than that sort of stress?

 

[dixiedragon]

PenelopeJane, she's moving on to an B&B business, and her website stop updating, I doubt I'll get my money back.

On a second thought, though I think most of us would not like diva or cry baby, but what if it's a depressed person or have mental illness, or with some disability? Would our members' constructive criticism make them more depressed or go cuckoo, or feel unaccepted by society? Then Randy might actually make a point. Though I don't know if a more neutral tone or dial down a bit will make a difference to the response of these people mentioned above. But I think the society might tolerate them MORE (than same behavior from average Joe or Jane ) and be EVEN MORE GENTLE.

Just a random thought after reading Saponificarian's post.

I find this to be pretty ridiculous, TBH. It's like that reasoning that you should be tolerant of rude, nasty people b/c they might have a mental illness. Seriously, if somebody is so severely mentally ill that a person on the internet telling them, "You don't know enough about soap to be a seller" pushes them to do something drastic ... then they were going to do something drastic anyway.

I also don't see how the post could have been MORE neutral. Sure, it could have been sugar-coated more, but to what purpose? It was polite, informative and gave logical reasons.

 

[JuliaNegusuk]

One thing that has surprised me (perhaps because I am an ex civil servant and it is in my blood) is that no-one has mentioned the law. I don't know where the felter person came from but if in the UK or Europe at least - I don't know about anywhere else, there is no way you can legally sell soap without going through pure bureaucratic hell (quite rightly too, you can hurt someone if you get it wrong - soggy soap is just one potential issue.) As someone who is currently going through this process and trying to do everything legally right, I am quite shocked that people think they can just make a potentially dangerous product from a recipe on-line and bung it on the market. I've been making soap for friends and relatives for about 4 years and working on my final recipes for about 8 months, (which probably isn't enough but I've been working to a deadline - but at least I've got a bit of experience behind me). It's taken me weeks and months just to get to grips with certification, labelling, weights and measures, insurance etc, etc. And I've given away tons of freebies to test the product, you definitely can't charge. Cost an arm and a leg. Soon to embark on the task of uploading all my soap stuff onto the EU database.

Wish me luck - I'll need it.

 

[dixiedragon]

Julia - good luck!

I skimmed the original posters first few posts, but not all of them, so I don't see any mention of where she is from? (I assume she b/c I assume Vicky is her name). Most of us are US located, so if she is selling soap as soap here in the US, then she doesn't need to get any kind of official testing done. It's a good idea to get insurance, but not required. If she is selling soap as a beauty product or as medicine - meaning she is making medical or beauty claims for the soap - then that's a whole different ball game.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

It's taken me weeks and months just to get to grips with certification, labelling, weights and measures, insurance etc, etc. And I've given away tons of freebies to test the product, you definitely can't charge. Cost an arm and a leg. Soon to embark on the task of uploading all my soap stuff onto the EU database.

Wish me luck - I'll need it.

Good luck, Julia!

Since a good number of us are hobbyists, JMHO (Just My Humble Opinion), it's a good thing we don't have to go through all you are going through in order to pursue our hobby, and we can sell handcrafted items to friends, relatives, farmers markets, local events, etc, to recoop some of the costs of pursuing that hobby. Although there are a few laws in place to protect the consumer, it is through online groups and forums like SMF that we learn (hopefully) to be self-regulating.

Certification similar to what you've outlined is available through a sort of guild, the HCSC (Handcrafted Soaps & Cosmetics) for people to get a solid grounding in the business aspect, then go on to market their products to retail and wholesale customers. They are the few at the upper echelon that are able to actually make a living selling handmade bath and body products.

The U.S. Congress is currently committed to passing a law similar to what you have in place in the EU. We hobbyists have a small but strong lobby that seeks to make a distinction between "cottage industries" vs. a large manufacturing operation so that we may continue to sell bath & body products on a local level without having to jump through all the hoops you are facing. For many of us, including me, it would be cost prohibitive.

So, I have to ask, once certified, where are you planning on selling your wares? Just curious...

Wishing you all the best! :bunny:
​

 

[JuliaNegusuk]

Hi Zany in CO. That is a very good question to which I have a totally stupid answer. I am doing it all voluntarily for a charity I volunteer for (actually one day a week on their children's farm, mostly mucking out and feeding the animals). I took in some soap as gifts for people a couple of years ago and they have been bending my ear ever since because they want to make it for their "shop" - actually a shed with a painted board with the word "shop" written on it which is open from 11am till 4pm two days a year on their farm open days, or whenever someone turns up from the village to buy eggs! I said no, absolutely no, not under any circumstances it's not worth it (and it isn't, they will sell one bar a week). Here I am two years later paying for the recipes to be certified and the costs of the first batch. (Certification costs about £230 for 8 or 9 soaps based on one basic recipe, the chemists just review your ingredients, quantities etc and presumably know from experience if it looks right, they don't actually test the product. Then you have to reproduce it exactly.) Then I shall train them up on how to make the soap and they are on their own. I appreciate this probably sounds risky but in the EU, you have each recipe certified and then you stick to it, or pay an admin fee to change it, so they will be just reproducing the recipes I have designed for them. I've written them exact ingredients lists and checklists and good practice guides to help them. They will have to get insurance. They will have to keep records of each batch, all the batch numbers and sources for all the ingredients for each batch, label them properly in accordance with EU regulation, weigh them etc in line with UK or EU laws, the list goes on. When they pass out from the weight of bureaucracy as it overwhelms them I shall say " I told you so, but you wouldn't listen". I doubt they'll make any money at all.
Actually I have rather enjoyed the challenge. Ironically if I wanted to sell the same recipes myself eg at a craft fair, I would have to get them certified all over again in my own name, even though the recipes won't have changed. Crazy eh!?! But I have to say, it isn't an expensive business to become a soap maker in the EU, probably one of the more accessible businesses for the small crafter or hobbyist, but the bureaucracy is quite breath taking and as an ex civil servant I know a lot about bureaucracy. You certainly have to be determined. The really stupid thing is that you don't need any training or experience! Surely it would make more sense to have to pass a course which allows you to then create recipes rather than get each one certified which does rather stultify creativity. But that would actually probably cost more. But the process applies equally, as far as I can see, to international cosmetic companies and Joe or Josephine Bloggs making 8 bars of soap per batch in their kitchen at home and flogging it on a charity stall.:-?