Borax Hand Soap for Blacksmith or other dirty work

[earlene]

Hi

Earlene would you mind sharing your formula for the combo blacksmithing soap?

Okay, Traumabrew, here is my recipe from the April 2017 layered Blacksmith soap pictured above. It is attached in PDF. If you are unable to view, please let me know. You can install a free PDF reader if you don't have one, but if that's not doable, I can do another method.

 

[DeeAnna]

Thank you for sharing, Earlene!

 

[Traumabrew]

Thank You!

 

[cgpeanut]

Thank you for sharing, Earlene!

Can trisodium ethylenediamine discuccinate be sub'd for tetrasodium EDTA in Earlene's formula or can the EDTA be left out altogether. Is the EDTA there for the DOS surppression?

 

[earlene]

cgpeanut, I have no experience with trisodium ethylenediamine discuccinate, so I cannot comment other than to answer the last two questions.

I use *ROE + EDTA for DOS prevention purposes AND the EDTA is also a chelator that reduces soap scum as the soap is used. I see a noticeable difference in reduced soap scum in my soaps since using it, and that coupled with the DOS retardation properties when used in combination with ROE is the reason it is included in my formula.

If you simply leave out the EDTA, I believe the ROE will not be very effective for DOS retardation, as per Dr. Dunn's work on the subject. http://cavemanchemistry.com/DreadedOrangeSpot-Dunn.pdf

Which chelator you use is a personal choice, of course, but you would have to figure out the correct percentages for each batch. I have no idea if you would use the same amount or a different amount of that particular ingredient.

Edit: *You don't see ROE in the actual soapee.com notes because I always add the ROE to my oils when I open them, so don't list them out for each recipe when I enter the formula into the lye calculator.

 

[cnm]

I know this is little older thread, but, earlene, there is only 2.2 grams of borax in your 1000 gram recipe?
I thought on the front page you had 2 ounces but there is not a total weight.

 

[earlene]

I know this is little older thread, but, earlene, there is only 2.2 grams of borax in your 1000 gram recipe?
I thought on the front page you had 2 ounces but there is not a total weight.

cnm, I just now saw your question. I was traveling and am now trying to catch up on what I missed while away.

I have made soap with Borax several times, and the measurements varied from soap to soap. Looking back in this particular thread, I will reference my posts that include formulas (Posts #4, # 27, #40 and #41.)

Post #4 includes two formulas.

First was the soap I made on 6/25/2016, wherein I used 2.2 ounces of Borax dissolved in water and the total batch size was not listed, but in my soapmaking notebook for 2016, I wrote the actual weights. I used 32 ounces of oils in that batch.

The second formula was for my first Borax soap made on 9/27/2015 in which I used 1.2 ounces of Borax. This amount was based on a recipe I found in a soapmaking book borrowed from my local library which called for 1/3 cup of Borax. 1/3 cup of Borax weighed 2.1 ounces on my scale. BTW, I did NOT follow that recipe, but altered it because I had no desire to use animal fats. I think I also had seen the same recipe posted at this link as well and it also calls for 1/3 cup Borax. So I probably had both in mind when I concocted that formula.

In post # 27, I talked about the weight of the Borax in grams instead of ounces as well as the total batch sizes for the previously mentioned soaps.

In post # 40 the 2 Borax/Pumice soaps I made on 4/9/2017 are pictured. The top photo of green & gold soap was all new soap. The bottom photo included new and old soap (some embeds & confetti).

Post # 41 includes the formula I used for the April 9, 2017 green & gold soap shown in the top photo shown in post # 40. My soapmaking notebook also lists 2.2 grams of Borax, so I do believe the data I typed into soapee is correct for that particular batch. I am not sure why I did that, other than to say, I probably meant to use 2.2 ounces, but was already measuring everything in grams, so that's what I did, then made sure to record it for accuracy.

I'll have to ask my brother if it works as well as the previous batches did. He will be here in a few days. He is on his way to an international Blacksmithing conference and will be staying here for a couple of night before they head back out on the road.

In fact my husband still has a bar of the first Blacksmith soap with the higher Borax content, sitting in the soap dish. I can get out one with the lower content and have him do some side-by-side testing next time he works on the cars or some other messy work and see if he notices a difference. I am really glad you asked that question!

 

[earlene]

Regarding the question of how much Borax I actually used and did I make a transcription or record-keeping error OR did I make a measuring error with the last blacksmith soap I made...

Now that my brother & SIL have left and we aren't busy with our trekking around Illinois (they left around noon yesterday), I am back to report on the follow up discussion.

It took me 3 days to remember to ask if the recent batch of blacksmith soap was cleaning his hands as well as the previous batches, and he said, 'Well I didn't want to say anything, but since you asked...) No, it's not cleaning as well. SO I apparently DID make a transcription error and followed the recipe with the lowered and INSUFFICIENT amount Borax recorded in my notebook. SO, I have made sure to correct the recipe saved in my computer and in my notebook to reflect the correct amounts. AND I have to be very careful to avoid transcription errors!

 

[lsg]

Thanks for generously sharing your recipe, earlene.

 

[Lye-h20-oil]

Thank you all for posting your thoughts and research on borax in soap. I have read all of the posts in this thread but I am still confused on when it should be mixed into the soap batch or if this soap should only be made with re-batching soap? If anyone can explain in small words

 

[shunt2011]

Thank you all for posting your thoughts and research on borax in soap. I have read all of the posts in this thread but I am still confused on when it should be mixed into the soap batch or if this soap should only be made with re-batching soap? If anyone can explain in small words

The borax is dissolved in water and then added to the lye solution.

 

[Lye-h20-oil]

The borax is dissolved in water and then added to the lye solution.

Thank you!

 

[earlene]

I was away traveling and am now catching up on what I missed while gone. Lye-h2O-oil, I dissolve my borax in hot water, then after it cools a bit, mix it into my oils. Sometimes I add it later, like after the lye solution is added to the oils. It all depends on if I forget to add it sooner. It seems to work fine either way.

 

[earlene]

Update: I thought I had posted the correction in this thread, but apparently only in another thread (How much Borax in CP Soap?)

Therefore, I am quoting the correction again here:

BTW, please note there is an error in that formula. I transcribed my recipe incorrectly from my handwritten notebook to the Soapee calculator.

The correct amount of Borax in that recipe is 2.2 OUNCES not grams.

I mentioned that in a later post in that thread.

Please be aware that if you use grams only 2.2 grams of borax in that recipe you may as well use none as it does not work well at all at that minuscule amount.

BELOW is the corrected formula:

Blacksmith Soap which I made for my brother, the blacksmith (April 9, 2017)

Dual Lye: 95% NaOH + 5% KOH (90% purity)
2% SF
Lye Concentration: 45%
Total Batch Weight 1567 grams
6% Fragrance (Dragon's Blood)

1000 grams of oils:
5% Castor
20% Coconut
30% Crisco, vegetable shortening (palm)
30% Lard
15% Olive Oil

*Lye Solution:
181 grams Water (distilled) - first deduct amount of water to dissolve Borax
136.8 grams NaOH
11 grams KOH (90% purity)

Additives:
62 grams Borax - dissolve in boiling hot water deducted from liquid amount
33 grams Pumice, super fine (the finest grain obtainable is best) - add to soap batter at trace
5 Tablespoons Honey - add to Borax solution to soften honey prior to adding to the oils
EDTA (or chelator of choice)
ROE (added to oils)

*IF using MasterBatch NaOH solution, there will be 44 grams water available, to be divided for dissolving Borax AND for dissolving KOH.

Add the Borax & Honey solution to the oils. Add the ROE, Chelator(s) & FO to the oils. Mix lye solution into oils to emulsion, then trace. Add pumice & mix well to ensure it remains in suspension. Color as desired. There should be sufficient time to do colored layers if desired.

Other oils can be used, however, that's what I used for the soap in question in this thread.


I do not claim that this is the be all and end all of Blacksmith Soaps, but my brother swears by it, so I have stuck with the Borax & Pumice combination to remove the stains from his hands and fingers.



FYI, I have checked, double checked & triple checked to make sure there are no typos or transcription errors prior to posting this Corrected Blacksmith Soap Formula.

 

[AliOop]

@earlene, I apologize if you answered this and I missed it elsewhere in the thread.

I do use masterbatch NaOH solution, so I want to be sure that 44g of water is enough to dissolve both 11g KOH and 66g Borax. Thanks for clarifying for me!

 

[earlene]

Yes, but I do use boiling water to dissolve the Borax. It would not be enough if the water were cold.

@earlene, I apologize if you answered this and I missed it elsewhere in the thread.

I do use masterbatch NaOH solution, so I want to be sure that 44g of water is enough to dissolve both 11g KOH and 66g Borax. Thanks for clarifying for me!

 

[melinda48]

Update: I thought I had posted the correction in this thread, but apparently only in another thread (How much Borax in CP Soap?)

Therefore, I am quoting the correction again here:



BELOW is the corrected formula:

Blacksmith Soap which I made for my brother, the blacksmith (April 9, 2017)

Dual Lye: 95% NaOH + 5% KOH (90% purity)
2% SF
Lye Concentration: 45%
Total Batch Weight 1567 grams
6% Fragrance (Dragon's Blood)

1000 grams of oils:
5% Castor
20% Coconut
30% Crisco, vegetable shortening (palm)
30% Lard
15% Olive Oil

*Lye Solution:
181 grams Water (distilled) - first deduct amount of water to dissolve Borax
136.8 grams NaOH
11 grams KOH (90% purity)

Additives:
62 grams Borax - dissolve in boiling hot water deducted from liquid amount
33 grams Pumice, super fine (the finest grain obtainable is best) - add to soap batter at trace
5 Tablespoons Honey - add to Borax solution to soften honey prior to adding to the oils
EDTA (or chelator of choice)
ROE (added to oils)

*IF using MasterBatch NaOH solution, there will be 44 grams water available, to be divided for dissolving Borax AND for dissolving KOH.

Add the Borax & Honey solution to the oils. Add the ROE, Chelator(s) & FO to the oils. Mix lye solution into oils to emulsion, then trace. Add pumice & mix well to ensure it remains in suspension. Color as desired. There should be sufficient time to do colored layers if desired.

Other oils can be used, however, that's what I used for the soap in question in this thread.


I do not claim that this is the be all and end all of Blacksmith Soaps, but my brother swears by it, so I have stuck with the Borax & Pumice combination to remove the stains from his hands and fingers.



FYI, I have checked, double checked & triple checked to make sure there are no typos or transcription errors prior to posting this Corrected Blacksmith Soap Formula.

going to give this a try for sure. thank you!

 

[math ace]

@earlene

I have a few questions about your Blacksmith Soap

1. What is the benefit of using two different types of lye?
I don't use KOH for anything. I really don't want to order some just for this
recipe unless there is a real good reason.

2. How different is the break down of oils from your normal body soap recipe?
My basic body soap recipe is vegan. I do run with 5% castor and 20% coconut oil,
but the rest of my oils are different. I am wondering if I would have a decent
blacksmith soap if I kept my regular body soap recipe and just added the
additives - Pumice, Borax, and sugar (keeping it vegan friendly .

3. THANKS earlene for sharing your recipe!

 

[Zing]

@earlene

I have a few questions about your Blacksmith Soap

1. What is the benefit of using two different types of lye?
I don't use KOH for anything. I really don't want to order some just for this
recipe unless there is a real good reason.

2. How different is the break down of oils from your normal body soap recipe?
My basic body soap recipe is vegan. I do run with 5% castor and 20% coconut oil,
but the rest of my oils are different. I am wondering if I would have a decent
blacksmith soap if I kept my regular body soap recipe and just added the
additives - Pumice, Borax, and sugar (keeping it vegan friendly .

3. THANKS earlene for sharing your recipe!

@earlene mentioned that you can use other oils. I found Earlene's recipe super helpful but used my own basic oils recipe (all plant based) and only NaOH. Let us know how it goes!

 

[AliOop]

@earlene
What is the benefit of using two different types of lye?
I don't use KOH for anything. I really don't want to order some just for this recipe unless there is a real good reason.

Dual lye makes the soap more soluble, which means it lathers a bit more easily. This can be important when you have a recipe like this with mostly low-lathering oils, plus a lot of scrubby stuff (or salts).

If you don't want to use KOH, you can compensate by making the soap more soluble (i.e., easy lathering) in other ways. For instance, increase the amount of honey, add some sorbitol, or use AVJ or some other form of sugar (which is a solvent that makes soap more soluble). You could also increase your CO or PKO.