anyone really test lard vs palm?

[Obsidian]

I know I like lard better than palm but since I found my holy grail recipe with lard, I've stuck with that one. I've never once in two years actually made that recipe using palm to see how they compare.

Since I have some palm I'd like to use up I'm going to make some test batches. One will be my regular lard recipe, one will be with palm and another with be a equal blend of palm/lard.

 

[Susie]

Let me know, as I have only ever tested lard against tallow/palm in GV shortening. Not that I have time or space to make more soap, but eventually I will. I think the whole "melt and mix" issue of palm throws me off the most.

 

[Obsidian]

All done:bath1:

Went about like I expected, lard recipe took forever to trace, I gave up and poured it at emulsion. As much as I like lard, sometimes I wish it would trace faster.

The palm recipe started to trace after about 10 seconds, switched to hand stirring and it thinned back out as it heated up. Poured at barely trace. Another reason I don't like palm, its just too fast.

The blend seemed like it would be a nice balance. It didn't go fast but was faster than the lard. I only took it to bare trace so I can't say how long it would take before it was too thick to work swirls.

Susie, if you are interested in testing these, let me know. I poured 3 little 1/2 oz testers and I'd be happy to send you some in a few weeks. I can keep which is which a secret so it would be a blind test.

They are unscented but colored to tell them apart and I did decide to use aloe juice since I really need to get it used up.

 

[Cellador]

I've made the same soap, one with palm and one with lard. I actually don't prefer one over the other and use both, depending on the other ingredients and who the soap is for (I have several vegetarian and vegan friends).
Palm is waxy, and to me, it kind of seems like a filler. It makes for a hard bar, but I don't feel it really adds much more than that.
Lard, on the other hand, is definitely creamier and adds more moisture. But I don't always like that feeling on my skin. I also feel like it affects the smell of bar too...not the piggy smell that people mention, but ...the same EO or FO doesn't smell the same to me in a bar utilizing lard.

 

[MorpheusPA]

By test, do you mean simply make a complete replacement of lard with palm, or vice-versa? If so, I did that several years ago.

I must be slightly sensitive to palm as I found it makes a harsher, less pleasant soap. My hide likes lard much better, and I find that to be gentler.

Palm does trace faster. As you noted, lard is slow, but I tend to simply pour at emulsion as I don't make sculpted tops and tend to prefer swirls that look like cirrus clouds.

I noticed no real difference in terms of final bar hardness and durability in the real world (the numbers say there should be some difference, but I don't see it).

Overall, I used lard as a perfect replacement (recalculating lye, of course) for palm and left palm behind long ago.

Nowadays I'm getting into a bit more tallow. Again, it's much the same, but does benefit from a bit more in terms of olive (or another conditioning) oil to counterbalance it. I find it a tad harsher on the skin than lard.

 

[MorpheusPA]

Let me know, as I have only ever tested lard against tallow/palm in GV shortening. Not that I have time or space to make more soap, but eventually I will. I think the whole "melt and mix" issue of palm throws me off the most.

Is that palm? I have it in my calculations as 3% soybean (partially hydrogenated).

Oops. :headbanging:

And yeah, I hear you on the space thing. Every square inch of drying space is filled, including the top of our television. Where am I going to store all this?

I have no idea as of yet... Shoeboxes with slits cut for air are sounding good, but ask me in another five weeks or so.

 

[Seawolfe]

Like others here, I find palm a little more waxy, and not as gentle compared to lard. If I am using palm I do not replicate my usual 65% lard with palm, but rather use like 20% palm and 10% shea or sometimes mango, and bump up the olive oil - which actually makes a nice vegan bar.

 

[Obsidian]

By test, do you mean simply make a complete replacement of lard with palm, or vice-versa? If so, I did that several years ago.

I must be slightly sensitive to palm as I found it makes a harsher, less pleasant soap. My hide likes lard much better, and I find that to be gentler.

Yes, I mean completely swapping the lard for palm. My go to recipe has 50% lard. I've not really seen palm used at the amount.

I always see palm and lard being compared to each other but without ever testing it for myself, can I really recommend using palm as a complete replacement? Now at least I'll know.

Is that palm? I have it in my calculations as 3% soybean (partially hydrogenated).

Oops. :headbanging:

GV comes in two varieties, one will say vegetable shortening, its the soybean. The other just says shortening and has a picture of fried chicken on it. Its a blend of palm/tallow. Its quite nice and I use it occasionally in place of lard.

One thing I noticed while running my recipes through soapcalc, lard and palm take the same amount of lye, so does the GV with palm so they can all be used interchangeably without having to alter your recipe.

The palm only soap it setting up quite a lot faster then the other two. I was already able to pop the little samples out of the mold but its a really thin soft mold.

 

[Saponificarian]

I have found out that I can use Palmolein at very high percentages without having any waxy feeling, almost 80%. (For a kitchen sink soap) I don't use Palm oil at more than 50%, if I have to I split it with Shea 50/50. I have found out that it helps Shea lather better. I really can't explain the science behind it yet but It does. In a recipe I normally use 50% Palmolein for, I used 25% each Palm/Shea and Shea/Tallow at 50% kept my cleansing oil the same. After cure I found out that the lather with 50/50 Shea and Palm is about same with the 50% Palm Olein recipe with a superior skin feel. The lather with the Tallow/Shea replacement was yummy, really yummy and much much better at the 4th Month mark. The skin feel is Unbelievable great.

Can't use lard but much prefer Tallow/Shea or Palm/Shea combo or straight Palmolein in that order. Palm oil is great at 40% any higher then your oil combo start to really matter.

 

[SunRiseArts]

I have. I find lard makes for a harder bar. Nit the soaps are very similar IMO.

But when design is important, yes. I think palm would be better.

 

[toxikon]

I started with palm then switched to lard after discovering the forum.

My palm soaps were always super hard and long-lasting. My lard soaps get softer and squishier in the shower and don't last as long. But they are much creamier.

I'm now trying a blend of lard/tallow to get the hardness back up to my old recipes.

 

[Obsidian]

I have. I find lard makes for a harder bar. Nit the soaps are very similar IMO.

But when design is important, yes. I think palm would be better.

Why do you think palm is better for designs? It traces way too fast imo. I want really slow trace if I'm doing fancy work.

The palm soap is just a little harder this morning. I was able to unmold it while the others are still a touch soft.
They went in the freezer so I can at least get them out of the mold to start drying.

 

[SunRiseArts]

Why do you think palm is better for designs? It traces way too fast imo. I want really slow trace if I'm doing fancy work.

The palm soap is just a little harder this morning. I was able to unmold it while the others are still a touch soft.
They went in the freezer so I can at least get them out of the mold to start drying.

Maybe because when I worked with it became like a dough? But I am slooooowwwww at working the colors. Although I had put some shea butter, and Zany suggested it could have been the shea.

 

[Dahila]

I had too, I prefer the lard one but the same soap with palm is pretty decent soap. It is hard to differ the two I make one with lard one with palm for vegans. When I do designs I use lard, palm will accelerate the trace, not awfully but noticeable

 

[SunRiseArts]

Interesting that my experience was different. I really need to figure out what is that thickens my batter, because I start perfect playing with it, and quickly because so hard.

I have done a soap with mostly soft oils, and I do not get the same problem.

 

[Obsidian]

It is weird your lard soap traces so fast. I can easily get 15 minutes with mine where palm only gives me about 3 minutes.

Butters can speed trace a bit but I've never really had trouble with them.

 

[SunRiseArts]

I wish I could figure out what it was. I was convinced it was the lard. Because is the variant in my recipe. The soap is so amazing though. Feels really good.

 

[IrishLass]

As an experiment back in 2010 or so, I did a complete replacement of lard with palm in one of my recipes that normally contains lard @ 26.5%. After all was said and done, the lard version won out, hands down. The palm version, although a little harder, lacked the depth and body of the lather exhibited by the lard soap. To say it in other words, I found the lather of the palm version to be very 2-dimensional in comparison to the
+3-dimensional lather of the lard version.


IrishLass

 

[Obsidian]

Initial lather test is in. Of course this will change since this is young soap.

lard only- lather easily with nice creamy lather, has plenty of oomph

blend- quick lather, lots of bubbles. feels creamy, maybe not as dense as the lard

palm only- took longer to lather, lather is thinner and just feels lacking. Looks creamy but really isn't

 

[Obsidian]

Been about 3.5 months since the last test. Here is the results from today.

White bar, lard. Large bubbles, creamy lather with good oomph. Lathered easily.

Pink bar, palm/lard blend. Easily lathered with creamy bubbles, not as dense as the white bar but very nice. This is a good blend, will make more.

Purple bar, palm. Fairly large bubbles but they don't last. Lather still seems thin with no body.