An Enthusiastic New Soaper

[Richard King Padama]

Hi Everyone,

I recently developed an interest in soaping after watching a few videos in youtube and trying out locally made soaps in our area. I must say, it got me inspired and thrilled. There is so much creativity and function involved.

I have visited so many blogs, sites, and watched so many videos.

I am a new member of this forum, and naturally I have so many questions.

I tried to read as much as I can first on the threads here, being a responsible forumer , to which I have been doing for a few days now before I start asking so many questions.

Honestly, the information is overwhelming and Im not even sure if I am able to understand even just half. Im really optimistic that you guys will be able to help me as I take my baby steps until Im able to stand on my own. I would really feel greatly appreciative.

I am about to start my very first soap making in a few days, and Im really in doubt if I am able to achieve acceptable results on the first try. Im still undecided if I want to do HP or MP. I currently dont want to try CP due to long cure time.

Personally, I want to do MP because the amount of creativity is endless. However, I have read somewhere that fragrances dont last too long when using MP, say for a year or so. So thats why Im thinking on doing HP instead. But, if I do HP, I want my soap to be as smooth as CP soaps as possible. Im also not sure if MP soaps are even as smooth as CP soaps are. So these things are making me undecided. I dont want to try both at the same time since I want to focus on learning one soap making process at a time.

And, in using EO, are EO the same or better than real fruit extracts in terms of benefits? Like if I want to use papaya or avocado, which would be better? Using extracts from the real fruits or just using EO.

Thank you so much guys.

 

[cmzaha]

 

[shunt2011]

Hello and Welcome! HP and CP require the same amount of cure. MP not so. HP may even require a longer cure due to the larger amount of liquid used to make it in some cases. I highly recommend that you read 10 or so pages in the beginners section. There is a lot of very helpful information. Plus, you can ask any questions left unanswered and we will certainly try to help you out.

 

[lsg]

Welcome to the forum. I think that you can use the same anchors for scent in M&P as in CP, that way the scent lasts much longer. Have you viewed the Soap Queen YouTube turorials. She does a lot with M&P.

 

[earlene]

Welcome, Richard.

M&P soap is a smooth as CP. HP can be smoother, but it is a lot more work to get it there. So if you are struggling between HP & MP, and want a shorter cure time, I recommend trying MP. After you use up your first MP base, then make a CP soap and while it's curing, you can make more MP. Then maybe HP and let it cure and make more MP.

As far as how long fragrances last in MP, that I cannot say. I don't do MP much myself, other than to know if is quite as smooth as CP. I started with HP, switched to CP, and usually only do MP when the grandkids want to do some soapmaking with me. There are members on the forum with a lot more MP knowledge who can help you with that.

 

[lsg]

I do M&P to make special soap for holidays for my grandkids. That way I don't have to wait for it to cure. I can use all kinds of fun molds for the holidays and birthdays. I usually do CP soap for myself , family and friends. Earlene has given you good advice. Start with M&P and move into CP and then HP.

 

[dibbles]

I have never noticed fragrance fading in MP. I would wrap it a day or two after it was made, which probably helped. I agree with earlene and lsg, start with MP, and then try CP or HP.

 

[Laurabolyard]

Welcome! I am brand new too, I only have about 12 batches in. I started with HP for many reasons, I am now working on CP, for learning and comparison sake. I got a LOT of helpful info in the thread that I started called 'HP lovers, reply here'. I am wanting to try MP next! Good luck!

 

[toxikon]

Welcome welcome! As others have mentioned, the cure time for CP and HP is the same.

The key here is understanding the difference between saponification and curing.

Saponification is the chemical process of the lye and fats combining into soap. With HP, this occurs in the cooking phase. With CP, it occurs over the following 1-3 days of pouring your batter into the mold. So saponification is quicker with HP.

Curing happens when you've poured your batter, unmolded it, and cut it into bars, and left it to rest. During this resting phase, water evoporates from the soap and the entire molecular structure of the soap changes to make it slowly become more mild, long-lasting and improve the lather qualities.

HP and CP should both cure for a minimum of 4 weeks for a GOOD bar of soap. In general, the longer you cure your soap, the better it gets. Soap after a 6-month or 12-month cure becomes pretty fantastic.

 

[Richard King Padama]

Thank you so much guys and thanks for the tips. And yes, I have watched a few videos from the soapqueen. Her work is fantastic.

I cant express enough how happy I am right now reading your insights. I hope its okay if Im going to address everyones inputs collectively, like we are all talking face to face.

In terms of curing, I have read somewhere over the internet that when you do HP, you can can use the soap the next day if not right away. I guess that's not entirely correct.

Fragrance is still a big factor for me. I want it to be long lasting just like commercial ones. Or at least over a year or so.

Im also quite confused. When you say "after you used up your first MP base," does that mean there are left overs after the using all your soap base in MP? Is that like a residue that I can recycle for CP and HP?

And about essential oils. Are they as good as real fruit/leaf extracts?

 

[Steve85569]

1.) Cure is cure. Think wine. After zygosis ( fermentation) you CAN drink it. But if you WAIT and let it age (cure) it's much better. Kinda the same thing with soap. It doesn't matter what fermentation process ( hot or cold is used). Wine and soap should still be allowed to age.
I used my first HP soap as soon as it was cooled. Would not do that today.

2.) Fragrances. A lot of EO's do in fact fade. That's because they are, well, EO's. They have an evaporation rate that will cause them to fade. Fixators ( clays, charcoal etc) will help them stay around longer.

I started out using only EO's. Now I only occasionally use them and mostly use FO's. They seem to stick better for me.

3.) M&P base comes in blocks. After you have gone through your first block of soap base you will have some experience with heating and handling M&P. M&P can be used for inbeds in CP and HP soaps. They are cousins.

4.) Most extractions and extracts contain alcohol which causes some interesting reactions in soap. Back to the Beginners section and read the "stickies". Lots of good information there. Search DeeAnna's posts and Geek tips. She is one of the resident chemists and can express the science in a very teaching way.

Welcome to the forum!

 

[jcandleattic]

In terms of curing, I have read somewhere over the internet that when you do HP, you can can use the soap the next day if not right away. I guess that's not entirely correct.

You can use soap (any method) as soon as saponification is complete. In HP soap that is as soon as the cook is complete, in CP, depending on oils and whether it gelled or not can take up to 72 hours or longer. After a complete saponification, soap - regardless of method - is SAFE to use. However, it will not be as mild as it can be, it will dissolve away much faster, and just not be a pleasant bar to use.

What you want, regardless of method, is a complete CURE. Curing and saponification often times gets confused, but are completely different things.
During cure, soap will become more mild, will lose moisture to become a harder, longer lasting bar, and the longer it cures, the better it gets for you.

 

[IrishLass]

Welcome Richard!

1) Cure...... ditto what both Toxicon and Steve said^^^. I make both CP and HP, and both can actually be safely used right away after unmolding just as long as there is no active lye present (which will present itself by zapping when the Tongue Test is applied. If there's no zap- the soap is safe to use.............but don't confuse 'safe-to-use' with 'best-time-to-use (or sell)'. They are galaxies apart in terms of quality and longevity.

2) Long-lasting fragrances........... Here is where trawling the different fragrance review sites comes in handy (or asking folks here on the forum). I never buy a fragrance oil for use in soap without first reading the reviews on how it has behaved for others in their soap. With their help (and my own trial and error, of course) I have been able to avoid purchasing any that don't last at least a year in my soap- that's my minimum standard of longevity- but I have a good handful of fragrances that last even longer than a year- some even up to 5 years in my soap.

Edited to add- looks like jcandleattic and I were posting about the same time. lol


IrishLass

 

[penelopejane]

Welcome!

Once you make a CP soap I think you will love the process. It’s so easy compared to HP and you can be really creative with CP designs so the soap looks fabulous.

 

[SoapAddict415]

Welcome to the forum Richard!

 

[Richard King Padama]

Thank you guys. I am deeply touched by everyones inputs. Thank you so much

I am now more confident

I am currently searching and reading for those threads/sections.

The clarifications between saponification and curing has really made me understand one of the most important things about soaping.

Im now more inclined in learning and making MP and CP over HP once I start. I will eventually do HP though, but after I have grasped MP and CP or should the need arise for me to do HP early.

In terms of production costs, is MP more expensive since you are going to use soap bases, to which I think is always glycerin soaps, compared to CP and HP wherein you are going to use lye?

Thank you for sharing your experiences about EO and fragrances. Its really valuable

However though, I want my soaps to be organic, or the closest to being organic. So Im thinking, if Im going to make a lemon soap using MP and HP, should I go with EO or should I just take lemon extracts from the real fruit in hoping to achieve a long lasting fragrance and having the natural effects lemon has on skin. In other words, its beneficial properties such as moisturizing, exfoliating, brightening, etc.

 

[Laurabolyard]

View attachment 28811

However though, I want my soaps to be organic, or the closest to being organic. So Im thinking, if Im going to make a lemon soap using MP and HP, should I go with EO or should I just take lemon extracts from the real fruit in hoping to achieve a long lasting fragrance and having the natural effects lemon has on skin.

I go for as close to organic as I can!! It's important to me. I am brand new, but doing my best with experimenting. I am using organic EOs, although I'm still learning the ratio and type so that I haven't wasted my $$!! I am using (for certain batches) organic oils. It's tough to experiment with organic because as newbs, they can be costly mistakes! I'm on my second batch of ALL organic, including organic, natural colorants. I did the first one HP, and the second one CP. they are colored with coffe, cocoa, chlorella, and turmeric. I juiced the turmeric and used it as my water. My EOs have been a failure though, I guess Im Just not using enough, first was eucalyptus, second was lemongrass.
A LOT to learn!! The more I know, the more I realize I DONT know!!

 

[jcandleattic]

My EOs have been a failure though, I guess Im Just not using enough,

I find there are very very few EO's that don't fade in soap. I've only had a handful last longer than 6 months. Most that I've used fade within 3-4 months.

 

[toxikon]

However though, I want my soaps to be organic, or the closest to being organic. So Im thinking, if Im going to make a lemon soap using MP and HP, should I go with EO or should I just take lemon extracts from the real fruit in hoping to achieve a long lasting fragrance and having the natural effects lemon has on skin. In other words, its beneficial properties such as moisturizing, exfoliating, brightening, etc.

Just as a point to consider... lye-based soap will never be 100% organic. If you want to spend more money on organic oils, go right ahead, but I personally don't see the point.

Soap is a wash-off product... it stays on the skin for maybe 10 seconds before being washed away. Add the fact that lye destroys much of the beneficial botanical properties you're trying to achieve, it makes it a bit pointless to try to preserve any kind of beneficial property aside from cleaning the skin. You simply won't be able to make a lye soap that can brighten or chemically exfoliate the skin. Those types of properties are best left for leave-on products like lotions.

Physically exfoliating soap IS an option! Pumice works well for that.

I'm not too familiar with extracts, but to my knowledge, the only things you can scent your soap with are EOs and FOs. They are the only scent-producing things that survive the lye. Wines, beers, coffees and teas do not scent your soap in any meaningful way.

 

[Richard King Padama]

Such beautiful soaps . I love the layers.

Regarding on being organic, thats a point well taken. I will keep that in mind. I never knew going 100% organic on soaps or its ingredients is a bit off to say.

How about when it comes to productions costs. Is MP more expensive since you are going to use soap bases, to which I think is always glycerin soaps, compared to CP and HP wherein you are going to use lye?