An Enthusiastic New Soaper

[Zany_in_CO]

Howdy from Colorado & Welcome to the Forum!

 

[penelopejane]

A lot of people use organic ingredients in soap. Your skin is your biggest organ. Transdermal medication is effective so why not what we put on our skin. I get a reaction from products is soap (not dermatitis) so I’m careful what I use.

There are a lot of organic soap sellers in Australia. It’s up to you to decide what is worth it for you,

 

[Complexions]

How about when it comes to productions costs. Is MP more expensive since you are going to use soap bases, to which I think is always glycerin soaps, compared to CP and HP wherein you are going to use lye?

It all depends for which costs more. If you are only doing MP, buying in bulk reduces cost per oz. Same with CP and HP, buying lye and oils/butters in bulk will reduce your cost per oz. Buying ingredients in bulk usually isn't cost effective for hobby soapers unless they are making a lot of soap due to oils and butters will expire before they can be used.

 

[cmzaha]

You can really make cp or hp soaps less expensively depending where you purchase your fragrances, which are really the most expensive additive to soap, lol, other than camel milk. MP bases are expensive and still require fragrance at close to the same percentage a lye soap. At least my daughter fragrance at the same percentage I do. Calling M&P glycerin soap, which many do, is a bit of a misnomer all soap forms glycerin in the natural process of saponification. M&P has some added glycerin, but other ingredients to make it clear and re-meltable. As mentioned to try to make an organic lye soap it is going to cost almost double in price and the lye is going to clean up the non organic oils just fine. You are not eating it! Another little note for M&P it is better to air cure it for a week or so before wrapping. If you live in med to high humidity put a fan blowing across your M&P soap, this will help tremendously to deter sweating. Natures Garden has some good priced fragrances that are nice, just read the reviews. I also find EO's fade in lye soap, they do stick better in M&P

 

[Richard King Padama]

Thanks so much guys. I have actually decided to try MP first, then CP, and then HP.

Everyone sharing their thoughts have become a really tremendous help for me. As a matter of fact, each time a new question pops in my head, an answer has already been provided ahead of time.
Its so convenient for me and Im glad Im in this forum.

Now that Im decided to start with MP, its time for me to prepare for the production costs. Im going to start in small batches and Im not yet going to buy in bulk.

From what I understand, when you do CP/HP, you basically need lye and when you do MP, you usually need a soap base. Then they all need EO/FO and other ingredients. So if lye and soap base is their major difference when it comes to ingredients, I want to ask you guys if which is more expensive based on your experience. Say, for the same volume of soap made through MP and the other made through CP. Ignoring the other expenses . I have made some pricing comparisons by visiting various websites , but I dont know how much lye is needed if I am to produce the same yield if I am going to do MP using soap base.

 

[earlene]

The other ingredient you are leaving out is OIL. You can't make CP/HP without oil, so it's not just the lye that is the cost difference between those and MP. The oil and lye are already in the MP soap.

Costwise, it really really depends on the vendors you choose and the oils you choose. For example, do you pay $12.00 for 2 pounds of MP at a local Michael's store, or do you order online and pay $6.00 for 2 pounds (plus shipping fees)? Another example is for lye: Do you pay $14.00 for 2 pounds of lye at your local hardware store (some say they get it for a lot less, but that is totally dependent on where you live, as around here it's $14 for 2 pounds) or do you order online and pay $7.58 for two pounds (plus shipping if applicable)? Oils in your grocery store can be costly or not, depending on if you buy 'specialty' oils or lard, for example. Oils online usually go along with a shipping fee, except in cases where the vendor is running a 'no shipping costs' special.

So you can see how the cost can be variable depending on your product choices and the vendors, but always take into account shipping and/or the cost of gas if you have to go out of your way to find the product.

edited to correct numbers (lye online for me is about 3.79 per pound free shipping so I doubled for 2 pounds)

Here is a potential cost comparison for a soap recipe using ingredients from local sources. This is NOT a recipe I use, but I made it up based on ingredients I can find in the small town where I live (except the lye, I have to travel for that).

2 pounds CP soap using 20.8 ounces of oils (I normally use grams, but for comparison to MP, which here is sold in pounds...)

Castor Oil sold at Walmart in 2 ounce bottles as a laxitive: $2.64 per bottle (using about half) so $1.32
Crisco new w/palm: $5.48 for 48 ounces (using 10.4 ounces) so $1.21
Olive oil: $2.56 for 17 ounces (using 10.4 ounces) so $1.57
Coconut Oil: $9.98 for 60 ounces (using 3 ounces) so $0.49
Lye: $14 for lye at TSC (gasoline cost to get there: $14.00) (using 2.83 ounces) so $2.47
Distilled water (required to make lye solution) comes to $0.05 for this batch

Total cost of oils for 2 pounds of this CP soap: $4.59
Lye solution: $2.47 (includes the cost of the gasoline to go buy it)

Total cost for this 2 pounds of soap using local stores as the source for oil and lye: $7.11

Michaels MP base $12.00 for 2 pounds. (That seems to be their standard price for different MP bases)
For me this would require a 60 mile round trip drive, so the price goes up based on one's gas mileage.

So there you have it, if I go to my local and local-ish stores, some of which require a 100 mile round trip, the CP soap is till cheaper than the MP. BUT that doesn't include some of the nicer oils that I like to use. What if I want to use shea butter or avocado oil, or cocoa butter, etc? The cost of the CP/HP soap goes up with those ingredients. And the recipe I used in this example doesn't include any luxury oils. And it's a lot like comparing apples to oranges because the ingredients list on any given MP base is not going to be the same as this particular soap recipe in this example.

Oh, and I forgot to include sales tax! That skews the numbers even more. Sales tax for me on food is 1%. I forgot to add that in for the oils. Sales tax for the lye would be 7.75% and for the MP it would be 7%, as different states and counties are involved in these purchases for me.

 

[dixiedragon]

I've never done the math of CP/HP vs MP. I would guess that if you are buying your CP ingredients in large quantities - say 50# bags of lye, 50# buckets of oils - that CP is probably cheaper. But if you are a casual CP soaper buying lye a few lbs at a time - you have to pay shipping on that, and since it's a hazardous substance, that adds to the cost. I would say that out of the gate, MP is probably cheaper - you just buy the MP vs lye and multiple oils. MP is solid so it's easier to store and ship.

Try Brambleberry for their beginner's kits to try CP. They have some that contain everything you need - lye, oils, scale, etc. The only thing you need too provide is water and a soap-safe bowl. Shipping is free too!

Some Eos work quite well in soap. You mentioned a lemon soap - citrus EOs don't stick in soap and also strip oil from the skin - think of all the cleaners with orange peel extract in them! But several citrus-like Eos are actually wonderful and inexpensive - litsea cubeba, lemongrass and citronella.

 

[Richard King Padama]

Wow. Thats a lot to think about. Thank you so much guys for providing a sample computation. I better get my excel sheets ready

By the way, just out of curiosity and a little bit of skepticism. What do you guys think of the ingredients below? The produce has gotten very good reviews and some people claimed it to be very effective against skin problems. I dont have the quantities though and I know its important, but other than that I know its done through HP.

Water, Sodium Hydroxide, Coconut Oil, Guava Leaves extract, Glycerin, Magnesium Carbonate, Sodium Chloride, Fragrance and Green 3.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Now that Im decided to start with MP, its time for me to prepare for the production costs. Im going to start in small batches and Im not yet going to buy in bulk.

Good. You made a decision. It's best to post this in a new thread so members knowledgeable about Melt & Pour Soap can help you.

By the way, just out of curiosity and a little bit of skepticism. What do you guys think of the ingredients below? The produce has gotten very good reviews and some people claimed it to be very effective against skin problems. I dont have the quantities though and I know its important, but other than that I know its done through HP.

Water, Sodium Hydroxide, Coconut Oil, Guava Leaves extract, Glycerin, Magnesium Carbonate, Sodium Chloride, Fragrance and Green 3.

If you have guava leaves extract, fragrance and FD&C approved colorant (skin safe), I believe you can add these to your Melt & Pour soap base in recommended amounts. The Glycerin, Magnesium Carbonate, and Sodium Chloride (aka table salt) would best be used in CP or HP. Not sure how you would add them to M&P, if at all... ?

HTH

 

[lizzysoap]

Hi, i am new to the forum as well. I use simple oils in my soap, I still searched for the best prices I could find so my costs look like this.

12oz vitamin E oil $13.89
Makes 74 lbs of soap cost/lb $0.19

24lbs of lard $31.10
Makes 60 lbs of soap cost/lb $0.52

1 gallon castor oil $31.10
Makes 152 lbs of soap cost/lb $0.21

6L olive oil $34.68
Makes 35 lbs of soap cost/lb $0.98

1 gallon of coconut oil $23.39
Makes 36 lbs of soap cost/lb $0.64

1 lb of lye $5.48
Makes 6 lbs of soap cost/lb $0.91

Distill my own water.

All the prices include shipping and taxes for where I live.

So I can make a simple "base" CP soap for $3.45/lb

After that your additives will cost will cost you the same for either M&P or CP.

I prefer CP because when my son was born he had severe allergic reaction to all over the counter soap. And M&P I didn't trust to try on his skin, I know more now, but when I was starting out any kind of chemical name made me nervous because I never knew what he was going to react to. We had tried even the most expensive skin sensitive soap and laundry detergent, but every time he would break out. So CP is just what I have done. Sorry probably to much back story. I said all that to say this go with what you are comfortable with. CP soap can be as cheap or expensive as you make it, there is a YouTube video of a woman who makes a pound of soap with nothing but dollar tree materials and lye, I think she said her cost was
$4/lb but I will have to find that video again.

 

[Richard King Padama]

Will do in the MP section

Wow. Thanks for sharing, the prices are really great for comparison. And by the way, how does CP not cause any allergic reaction to your son?

 

[shunt2011]

Will do in the MP section

Wow. Thanks for sharing, the prices are really great for comparison. And by the way, how does CP not cause any allergic reaction to your son?

Not the OP but CP likely works for her son as it does for many because you can choose what you are putting/not putting into the product. You know what's in it and there are no additives unless you add them yourself.

 

[lizzysoap]

I used only a few very basic oils, no additives, no colors, no smells, and no preservatives. And prayed it work. Luckily it did, it was a last ditch effort before giving up and deciding I was not going to use any soap to give him a bath. He had chemical burns from diapers too. Before we figured out what to do, there were many days I would lay down a mattress protector on the floor cover it with a blanket and let him lay there naked. I am not sure why my soap didn't burn him like all others seemed to, I'm just glad.

 

[Richard King Padama]

Im happy for you and your son. Sounds like a success story