Am I hearing this?

[John Harris]

It's slowly dawned on me that I think some of our most advanced soapers are saying that they no longer use "luxury" oils (e.g. castor, sweet almond, emu, baobab, babassu, etc., etc.) because once the lye is finished with them, all of their "luxury" features are gone. So, they only stick to base oils (olive, palm, coconut, lard, etc.).

Is that what advanced soapers believe? Or am I getting the wrong impression?

 

[Misschief]

Personally, I'd prefer to use the luxury oils in a leave on product to get the maximum benefit, although I don't consider castor a luxury oil. I use it at 5% in most of my soaps. I use emu oil in my lip balm (been making the same recipe for almost 20 years), babassu and argan in my lotion bars, jojoba and others in my lotions and other leave on products.

 

[IrishLass]

I personally do not consider castor to be a luxury oil. While it's true that just the 3 basic oils of olive, lard (and/or tallow or palm) and coconut (and/or PKO) will get you a nice soap, the addition of castor (in my opinion) makes it even better. I find it gives a nice 3-d effect to my lather, in a sense making it more well-rounded, if you will.


IrishLass

 

[Cellador]

You are hearing correctly. I think most soapers who have been doing it awhile agree that adding a pricey luxury oil to soap is a waste of resources. A soap is for cleansing. It rinses off. Luxury oils are better off being used in a lotion or other leave-on product.
That being said, I do use a small percentage of luxury oils in soap in some special recipes. (Like jojoba or babassu) .I think I can tell a difference but it is also for the label appeal.
I also do not consider Castor a luxury oil. It's cheap & easy to come by. I add it to every recipe.

 

[Obsidian]

Its true for me. I don't use butters or luxury oils anymore.
I just don't see enough of a difference to justify using them.
My basic oils are lard, coconut, safflower and castor.
I might change it up and use sunflower or avocado instead of safflower. Shea I will use if someone requests a veggie bar.

 

[DeeAnna]

I don't think it makes much sense to use most "luxury" (aka expensive) fats in soap because most of them don't make a measurable difference in the tangible, measurable properties of the soap -- the quantity and quality of the lather, the skin feel, and longevity.

It's been my perception that many soap makers use luxury/expensive fats in their soap because they want "healing and nourishing" properties of the fat to be carried over into the soap. I have never seen credible information that shows this actually happens.

I view castor as more of a basic soaping fat, not a luxury fat. While I haven't been using it in my soap lately, it's widely used for adding to the quality and quantity of the lather. Those are measurable, tangible qualities.

Remember too that what's a luxury/expensive fat in one part of the world might be a common, inexpensive fat in another.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

This is super interesting. How do people feel about the expensive (for some) butters for increasing the hardness and longevity of the recipe when you don’t want to use an animal fat or palm? I guess it becomes a luxury soap!

 

[sirtim100]

If that's the case, and "luxury oils" don't really make any appreciable difference to the end product, then I for one will relieved, because that takes the heat off the budget and allows me to buy what I really like playing with, the smells...

 

[Mobjack Bay]

If that's the case, and "luxury oils" don't really make any appreciable difference to the end product, then I for one will relieved, because that takes the heat off the budget and allows me to buy what I really like playing with, the smells...

And simplifies formulation!

 

[Millie]

I've been noticing that a lot of my favorite soaps have a little almond oil in them. Fortunately it is cheaper than olive oil but it feels luxurious. I also bought a bottle of jojoba (3× cost of OO) when I first started soaping 4 or so years ago, and I add a bit (2% or so) to soap every now and again. Still using that first bottle. I think it does a little something special to the feel (luscious silky lather in a palm bar that feels closer to lard). Because very little of it saponifies, I think it is more of a superfat ingredient than a soap ingredient.

All that said, to me lard soaps feel the most luxurious. I've been going back and forth from lard to palm because of the smell, otherwise it would be lard all the way. And no need for jojoba or anything fancy in a lard soap.

(I'm not an advanced soaper, just a lazy sort of soaping-for-fun-and-sanity kinda gal)

 

[cmzaha]

I do not add in luxury oils. Although I do make a 57% Shea Butter soap as a facial bar that is very nice, I do not necessarily say it is any better than my other soaps but customers like it. Since I get raw shea in bulk $2.60 per lb and no shipping costs I can afford to make a high shea bar. As DeeAnna mentioned what is expensive for some is not expensive for others. Use what is the most cost-effective.

I also do not consider Castor a luxury oil, I just like it, but do not consider it cheap at $137.00 for 35 lbs compared to $40 for 35 lbs of CO or $38 for 50 lbs of Palm. Granted Castor is not used at a high percentage but it still is not what I would consider an inexpensive oil.

 

[Kathymzr]

Maybe just leave it to individual interest, or cost/profit issues, or to experimentation, learning, and some just plain fun.

 

[DeeAnna]

...How do people feel about the expensive (for some) butters for increasing the hardness and longevity of the recipe when you don’t want to use an animal fat or palm?...

That's totally your call. You get to choose the parameters that define your style of soap making. If your reservations about animal fats and palm mean your ingredients cost more, then that's just the way it is for you.

"...I guess it becomes a luxury soap!..."

A soap made with butters might be an expensive soap, but I would reserve judgement on it being a luxury soap until I tried it. If the soap ingredients cost a lot but the finished product is crappy, the soap will certainly be spendy, but luxe it is not.

The essential point is a person doesn't HAVE to use expensive fats to make really nice soap.

 

[Carly B]

I am new to cold process, and although I got a variety of oils to learn on and experiment with, most soaps are the basic oils (I, too, consider castor basic, and as the others have said, castor is not a luxury oil. I experiment with the soap calc to see if it really matters a lot in the numbers between rice bran, apricot kernel, kukui, etc. and I experiment with my CP soap to see if they behave differently.

That being said, although rinse-off, I have and do use luxury oils when I make rebatch soap or M&P soap. I find that if I take soap shreds and add a little liquid (I usually add oat milk or goat milk) and something like emu oil, and gently melt them and mix them together, the resulting soap is glorious and I find I don't need moisturizers afterward. But the other thing is I make rebate a few bars at a time, so
my small bottle of emu oil isn't completely used up at once.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

.

"...I guess it becomes a luxury soap!..."

A soap made with butters might be an expensive soap, but I would reserve judgement on it being a luxury soap until I tried it. If the soap ingredients cost a lot but the finished product is crappy, the soap will certainly be spendy, but luxe it is not.

The essential point is a person doesn't HAVE to use expensive fats to make really nice soap.

Yes, I agree. Make that “luxury” as in it costs more.

 

[lsg]

I regularly use Castor oil in my soap to produce large bubbles. I don't consider Castor oil as luxury oil, though.

 

[KiwiMoose]

I regularly use Shea butter at 10% ($12kg), and Avocado oil at 5% ($NZ19kg). I like the feel of the avocado oil in the soap, I think it gives a more creamy consistency to the lather. I offset the cost of those two items with RBO (very cheap here@ $NZ4) and Soy Wax ($NZ8kg). All the other regular oils in my soap - OO, CO, Castor - weigh in at $NZ10-12 per litre or less.
I'm not a seasoned soaper though : )

 

[Dawni]

Not a seasoned soaper here either but I simple don't use expensive oils coz I can't afford them haha

Having said that I do splurge on cocoa and shea for vegan bars (SO is vegan), because I don't have access to palm and soy wax costs about as much as cocoa butter, which here, costs less than shea.. It's reverse for KiwiMoose apparently, proving DeeAnna's point.

Otherwise my main fats are lard, coconut, RBO and castor (in ascending order of cost hehe) which are dirt cheap. The cost of these four allow me to use one or two costlier oils in a recipe, like avocado, almond or olive. Sometimes I don't even use castor.

This is super interesting. How do people feel about the expensive (for some) butters for increasing the hardness and longevity of the recipe when you don’t want to use an animal fat or palm? I guess it becomes a luxury soap!

It does become expensive. I'll tell you that the cost of my vegan bars are double the regular bars and then some.

Surprisingly, one of my recipes I've had to make again n again is vegan, but my mom's friends think it's luxurious (their word lol) so they buy it no matter how much it costs lol It has 3 butters and also avocado oil and I cure minimum 3mos.

 

[shunt2011]

I don’t consider castor a luxury oil either. I use it in most of my soaps. I also use almond in a recipe, avocado and Shea. Are they needed, maybe not but I like them so use them. It’s all personal preference.

 

[SideDoorSoaps]

I have a recipe that has sweet almond oil and cocoa butter that is a bit more bubbly and creamy than my regular recipe. I used mango butter in a soap and it did come out harder and lasted longer. However, I don’t think those small results are enough for me to use these more expensive fats in my soap where the cost is pretty low per bar.

Next to olive oil, castor is my next expensive oil but I don’t think it is a luxury fat. ETA - I don’t hot process much but I often hear that the luxury fats are used after the cook for superfatting because the lye won’t use it up and the benefits are retained. I’d be interested in more studies about that.