Aloe Darlin'!

[KiwiMoose]

I wondered how many of you have used aloe juice in your soap and would be keen to know your experiences with both acceleration and yellowing. I think I've been getting both.
I started using it as 'my new favourite thing' about a month ago, and have been having problems with the aforementioned ever since.

 

[cmzaha]

I use fresh and bottled aloe juice and get no acceleration or yellowing from either. When I have it I will make my masterbatch with aloe and get no great yellowing of the lye solution. My lye solution will yellow if I add fresh aloe to the lye, but never yellows my soap.

 

[Dahila]

no acceleration or discoloring I like it the soap is kind for smooth , Even that I add sugar

 

[Obsidian]

I use juice, no accel or discoloring. The lye turns a bit yellowish at first but it fades quickly.
Here is a batch I made with 100% aloe. Took forever to trace. No color added.

When you use fresh, are you removing the skin? Is the juice you are using made for drinking?

 

[Marilyn Norgart]

I have used and haven't seen any acceleration but I did color a slight green so don't know if it was off colored or not. I use the juice that you drink and I love the soap

 

[KiwiMoose]

I use juice, no accel or discoloring. The lye turns a bit yellowish at first but it fades quickly.
Here is a batch I made with 100% aloe. Took forever to trace. No color added.

When you use fresh, are you removing the skin? Is the juice you are using made for drinking?

I buy a 10 to 1 concentrate, and I mix it up for the full water. It’s very yellow in the lye water.

 

[Marilyn Norgart]

yellow in the lye water.

mine turned brownish in the lye

 

[Rune]

@KiwiMoose, does your aloe vera juice contain potassium sorbate? If it does, I read this just now (link under), and potassium sorbate turns to sorbic acid in water. Sorbic acid it is sensitive to UV light and can turn yellow, discolour and darken. But, that is sorbic acid, and I guess when you add Naoh it will become sodium sorbate instead of sorbic acid, and might not yellow. But I am no chemist and have no clue at all about such things.

What are the ingredients in your aloe vera juice? Perhaps it is something fishy in there that can do strange things in soap.

Here is the link where I read about potassium sorbate (I found potassium sorbate as well as some other things on the ingredient list on the Lifestream Biogenic Aloe Vera Digestive Tonic in New Zealand, that's why I googled it):

https://lotioncrafter.com/products/potassium-sorbate

 

[Mobjack Bay]

I am currently using an Aloe Vera juice that claims to be 99.8% aloe and lists ingredients as:
ALOE VERA GEL, CITRIC ACID, SODIUM BENZOATE (A FOOD PRESERVATIVE AT 1/10 OF 1%). This one is very thin.

My first aloe had carrageenan added and it had much more of a gel-like consistency.

Neither of them have caused acceleration or discoloration in my soap.

 

[KristaY]

I use aloe juice that's meant for drinking. I probably use the same one as @Mobjack Bay as the ingredient list looks the same. I get a bit of yellow when I mix in the lye but it's never turned my batter yellow or caused any trace problems. I wonder if the US product is different from the NZ product.

 

[Alfa_Lazcares]

I use fresh aloe from the plant. Then I mix my lye in to it and it does get yellow, but the resulting soap is not yellow and I also dont get any acceleration.

 

[KiwiMoose]

I use fresh aloe from the plant. Then I mix my lye in to it and it does get yellow, but the resulting soap is not yellow and I also dont get any acceleration.

I'm thinking I might go and raid my friend's garden where she has aloe taking over, and make my own.

@KiwiMoose, does your aloe vera juice contain potassium sorbate? If it does, I read this just now (link under), and potassium sorbate turns to sorbic acid in water. Sorbic acid it is sensitive to UV light and can turn yellow, discolour and darken. But, that is sorbic acid, and I guess when you add Naoh it will become sodium sorbate instead of sorbic acid, and might not yellow. But I am no chemist and have no clue at all about such things.

What are the ingredients in your aloe vera juice? Perhaps it is something fishy in there that can do strange things in soap.

Here is the link where I read about potassium sorbate (I found potassium sorbate as well as some other things on the ingredient list on the Lifestream Biogenic Aloe Vera Digestive Tonic in New Zealand, that's why I googled it):

https://lotioncrafter.com/products/potassium-sorbate

Bingo!:
INCI:Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Juice, Sodium Benzoate, Sodium Sulfite, Potassium Sorbate, Ascorbic Acid, Citric Acid

This easy to use liquid concentrate makes it super simple to include the incredible soothing and hydrating properties of Aloe into your formulations.

As a 10:1 concentrate, you only need to add a small amount to your product to harness Aloe's properties e.g. 10g = 100g of fresh aloe juice.

The product comes pre-preserved so no need to use quickly or store in the fridge.

Best added post emulsification for hot process products, add to water phase for cold process products.

 

[Rune]

I found that aloe vera contains phenol: "Phenol-containing plant essences can lead to colour changes in cosmetic formulation. This natural process can be prevented with Sodium sulfite".

Maybe they haven't used enough sodium sulfite in that juice you have? No, I really have no clue what it can be that thickens and discolour your soaps. I would probably test another brand, since people seems to have success with aloe vera juice, or find something like a powder or something that does not have anything but aloe vera in it, and can be mixed with water before adding to soap. Or maybe that will be even worse with phenols leading to color changes and no sodium sulfite to counteract that? If not those phenols are broken down or something by lye and doesn't do anything, I don't know. I would switch to another brand first, I guess.

And I think I would measure the PH of that aloe vera juice. It seems to have acids enough in there and ingredients that turn to acids in contact with water, which may increase your superfat quite a bit if the juice is quite acidic and you use a lot of it and not adjust for it with extra lye.

 

[Obsidian]

Maybe look for juice made for drinking instead of cosmetics. If you have any large pharmacies, they should carry it.

Only downfall of buying a big jug is if you don't use it in a reasonable amount of time, you'll need to freeze it.
I just fill ice trays and store the cubes in a ziplock bag.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

Maybe look for juice made for drinking instead of cosmetics. If you have any large pharmacies, they should carry it.

Only downfall of buying a big jug is if you don't use it in a reasonable amount of time, you'll need to freeze it.
I just fill ice trays and store the cubes in a ziplock bag.

I was wondering about freezing it... I have a gallon, which is a little more than I need right now

 

[Saranac]

I can't speak to the acceleration, but with regards to the ascorbic acid and sodium sulfite, the two work together to prevent oxidation (and color change). Ascorbic acid works very quickly to scavenge oxygen, but once it's "used up", the product can discolor; in fact, juices can discolor worse once the ascorbic acid is gone than had none been added to begin with. The sulfite takes a bit longer to work its antioxidant magic, but it can help prevent the excessive color change that is inevitable once the ascorbic acid is "used up".

The problem here is that sulfites are less effective as pH rises, so I assume that once one adds NaOH to make a lye solution, the sulfites are no longer able to protect the juice from the short-comings of the ascorbic acid, and this results in excessive discoloration.

I would see if you can find an aloe juice that doesn't contain ascorbic acid and see if that makes a difference.

Disclaimer--I'm not a chemist, but I've studied winemaking (just another type of juice), and at one time ascorbic acid was recommended to prevent discoloration, but it's not used as much any more because of the concerns with "delayed" oxidation. When ascorbic acid is used, it's always in conjunction with sufficient levels of sulfite (usually, potassium sulfite).

Again, I'm not a chemist, and grape juice and lye solutions are two very different products, so maybe this doesn't apply. . . but maybe it does.

 

[KiwiMoose]

The juice made for drinking I found had a whole lot more cr*p in it with a lower concentration of actual aloe, which is why I went for this one. But I think I'll just bite the bullet and raid my freind's garden for the real thing. Then I'll report back if that makes any difference. I really do like aloe in my soap - once you've had aloe you'll never go back ;-)

 

[Obsidian]

Too bad you can't find pure juice like we have here. Its not a drink for enjoyment or hydration, its more of a dietary supplement. I'd personally never drink the nasty stuff.

I really like fresh too but its not easy to find here and my plant really isn't big enough to harvest.

 

[KiwiMoose]

Too bad you can't find pure juice like we have here. Its not a drink for enjoyment or hydration, its more of a dietary supplement. I'd personally never drink the nasty stuff.

I really like fresh too but its not easy to find here and my plant really isn't big enough to harvest.

We have got it here too Obsidian but it's hellishly expensive, and I'm still not sure of the actual concentration. Will do some more looking.

 

[Relle]

Aloe Vera or (Kiwi) .

Heirloom have organic aloe powder 200:1 just new in. It's 10g for $10 or 50 g for $35 aud, so not all that cheap. Raiding the neighbours garden looks promising.