Adding colloidal gold and silver (particles) to oils

[squidstings]

Adding them to soap was easy. mix lye/water (adjusted for colloid volume), add when clear and soap away. I'd like to add them to my balms and butters, but they're nano particles suspended in water.

I have 2 questions.
1 Emulsifiers.
I'd rather keep to as few "chemicals" as possible. If I can't, transfer them, what would you guys suggest that is as skin friendly as possible. These ingredients are targeted for healing in my recipes. Any info would be appreciated.

2 Transferal?
The way my mind works, something like maybe diluting them both in water and vacuum distilling off the water would be tried if I had the equipment. I'd need a bit of confirmation of at least a chance of success before I can invest in a process. Somthing like transfering water colloid particles into an oil, turning IT into a colloid? I

 

[DeeAnna]

The problem with questions about "avoiding chemicals" and keeping a formulation as "skin friendly" as possible is that these concepts mean different things to many people. Most readers, from what I've seen over the years, tend to become wary of wide-open somewhat vague questions like this.

You're more likely to get responses if you narrow down your field of inquiry. For example, ask about the pros and cons of specific ingredients.

Also most soap makers on this forum are small scale makers, so vacuum distilling isn't a process most members will know much if anything about.

 

[squidstings]

The problem with questions about "avoiding chemicals" and keeping a formulation as "skin friendly" as possible is that these concepts mean different things to many people. Most readers, from what I've seen over the years, tend to become wary of wide-open somewhat vague questions like this.

You're more likely to get responses if you narrow down your field of inquiry. For example, ask about the pros and cons of specific ingredients.

Also most soap makers on this forum are small scale makers, so vacuum distilling isn't a process most members will know much if anything about.

Different things to different people is a good thing. I understand I'm asking questions that would be best targeted to an industrial soap chemisti. In the hobby forums, my level of skill, my only hope of an answer to my question is likely some odd bit of knowledge someone picked up somewhere. But I'm a hobbiest with a few of those tips rattling around in my head begging to get out.

I recently made a healing restorative lye soap that worked what I can only call a miracle on my first bout of psoriasis that told me I had it. Then I got a response that reminded me some people suffer it far worse. So now I'm thinking about adding the healing properties of Gold and Silver to Salves, balms and butters.

I appreciate the advice, and I expect few, if any answers to the questions I ask. I have no need to rush.

I only came here to share/gift my soap recipe. Anything else is just guilding on the lilly. Thank you for your input

 

[AliOop]

You can certainly use your colloidal liquid to make an emulsified body butter - which is just another term for a cream or thick lotion.

If you’ve never made one of those before, take a look at some sites like Humblebee & Me, Whole Elise, or Nerdy Farm Wife. Simply substitute some of your colloidal liquid for the distilled water.

I do this with homemade magnesium “oil” and it works very well, but I haven’t used colloidal silver or gold. I recommend making small batches with small amounts of colloidal liquid to start, to make sure that nothing about the colloid disrupts the emulsion.

 

[squidstings]

You can certainly use your colloidal liquid to make an emulsified body butter - which is just another term for a cream or thick lotion.

If you’ve never made one of those before, take a look at some sites like Humblebee & Me, Whole Elise, or Nerdy Farm Wife. Simply substitute some of your colloidal liquid for the distilled water.

I do this with homemade magnesium “oil” and it works very well, but I haven’t used colloidal silver or gold. I recommend making small batches with small amounts of colloidal liquid to start, to make sure that nothing about the colloid disrupts the emulsion.

Homemade "magnesium oil"? I'm curious.

Do you use any salves with emulsified water based ingredients? What emulsifiers do you use?

H2O Colloids just don't soak into the skin well/deep enough without a humectent like glycerine or a carrier that absorbs.

 

[AliOop]

Do you use any salves with emulsified water based ingredients? What emulsifiers do you use?

Once a product is emulsified with any water-based ingredients, I don't consider it a salve, balm, or body butter any longer. Depending on thickness, it really is a lotion or a cream in my book. That is a generally (albeit not universally) accepted usage, so you aren't as likely to find online recipes for emulsified products if you are searching with the terms "salve" or "butter" or "balm." Most of them will be under "lotion" or "cream."

I do understand why people may want to use the term "salve" or "balm" for marketing their emulsified products. These words imply healing properties, yet without making claims that violate the governmental rules. Anyhoo, whatever you decide to call them, I love making emulsified products with water-based ingredients, as well as herb-infused oils, etc. E-wax is my emulsifier of choice; it's inexpensive and works with everything. There are more "natural" emulsifiers out there, but they are expensive and generally more finicky.

H2O Colloids just don't soak into the skin well/deep enough without a humectent like glycerine or a carrier that absorbs.

Most lotion/cream recipes include some glycerin, sodium lactate, hyaluronic acid, or other humectant. Even if they don't, it's easy enough to add in a humectant. Simply subtract that percentage from the water.

Homemade "magnesium oil"? I'm curious

It's called "oil" because it feels oily, but it's just magnesium flakes dissolved in water. You can pay big bucks for it premade, or make it very easily at home. Using it straight can make the skin feel itchy or burning, so I incorporate it into my lotion/cream/emulsified salve recipes by replacing some of the distilled water with the magnesium "oil."

 

[justjacqui]

Keep in mind that selling creams, salves, butters or soaps that claim to be "healing" puts them into the drug category and not cosmetics.

 

[squidstings]

Keep in mind that selling creams, salves, butters or soaps that claim to be "healing" puts them into the drug category and not cosmetics.

As a rule.

Just wait to find colloidal silver/gold once they succeed at patenting a way to get the nano particles into the human body. The Burns ward sure calls sliver "healing" lol

just a gift. But thanks

Once a product is emulsified with any water-based ingredients, I don't consider it a salve, balm, or body butter any longer. Depending on thickness, it really is a lotion or a cream in my book. That is a generally (albeit not universally) accepted usage, so you aren't as likely to find online recipes for emulsified products if you are searching with the terms "salve" or "butter" or "balm." Most of them will be under "lotion" or "cream."

THANK YOU!! A distinction I needed.

I do understand why people may want to use the term "salve" or "balm" for marketing their emulsified products. These words imply healing properties, yet without making claims that violate the governmental rules. Anyhoo, whatever you decide to call them, I love making emulsified products with water-based ingredients, as well as herb-infused oils, etc. E-wax is my emulsifier of choice; it's inexpensive and works with everything. There are more "natural" emulsifiers out there, but they are expensive and generally more finicky.

How is E-wax with absorption? I switched to cocoa butter in my Lip balm/sticks because the beeswax I'd been using was only desirable/tolerable in winter.

Some things I'll save up for. I've done searches. Lots of "buy what i sell" and "Pay for my ideas". I personally never trust a message backed by $$ without anecdotal support these days. Feel free to name a few that would be suitable for your needs. If you wouldn't mind.

It's called "oil" because it feels oily, but it's just magnesium flakes dissolved in water. You can pay big bucks for it premade, or make it very easily at home. Using it straight can make the skin feel itchy or burning, so I incorporate it into my lotion/cream/emulsified salve recipes by replacing some of the distilled water with the magnesium "oil."

Ahhh. Magnesium "flakes" .. a.k.a. Epsom salts with a higher price.

"Epsom salts" (might) come with more water and dissolve slower. They might drive more water off of the "flakes" to help it dissolve faster, but just the flake form has a better surface area so might give the same effect. Otherwise, minus a few H2O molecules, every single example I found of "Magnesium flakes" was just Magnesium Sulfate. As is Epsom salts. Just FYI

Thanks

 

[AliOop]

Ahhh. Magnesium "flakes" .. a.k.a. Epsom salts with a higher price.

"Epsom salts" come with more water and dissolve slower. They might drive more water off of the "flakes" to help it dissolve faster, but just the flake form has a better surface area so might give the same effect. Otherwise, minus a few H2O molecules, every single example I found of "Magnesium flakes" was just Magnesium Sulfate. As is Epsom salts. Just FYI

The mag flakes that I use are magnesium chloride, which is not the same as magnesium sulfate, aka Epsom salts. My research indicates that mag chloride is more readily absorbable through the skin than mag sulfate, which is why it is used in topical magnesium products.

Also, since I haven't tried mag sulfate in lotions, I can't say whether it would behave differently, e.g., affect the emulsion, the pH, or the like.

 

[paradisi]

As a rule.

Just wait to find colloidal silver/gold once they succeed at patenting a way to get the nano particles into the human body. The Burns ward sure calls sliver "healing" lol

just a gift. But thanks

Not just as a rule; a matter of law. And that includes 'nudge nudge wink wink' wording, testimonials, and products without claims but sold because the customer thinks the magic ingredient has healing powers.

Burn wards aren't using the colloidal silver available on amazon or other DIY sources, many of which are just tap water and none of which would be as hygienically produced or packaged as medical grade.

 

[squidstings]

The mag flakes that I use are magnesium chloride, which is not the same as magnesium sulfate, aka Epsom salts. My research indicates that mag chloride is more readily absorbable through the skin than mag sulfate, which is why it is used in topical magnesium products.

I searched "magnesium flakes". Probably confused the algorithm used to boost "individual search" numbers. I still only get melt and pour ONLY when I specifically search "Lye soap".

Also, since I haven't tried mag sulfate in lotions, I can't say whether it would behave differently, e.g., affect the emulsion, the pH, or the like.

I was excited at the thought of another magnesium source for the skin.

FYI, "Colloidal" is a suspension of something that does NOT dissolve. If someone told you that was "Colloidal" Magnesium, that was completely inaccurate. It's just magnesium salt water.

 

[AliOop]

FYI, "Colloidal" is a suspension of something that does NOT dissolve. If someone told you that was "Colloidal" Magnesium, that was completely inaccurate. It's just magnesium salt water.

Thank you, I am aware. The term "colloidal magnesium" was not anywhere in any of my posts. To the extent I referred to colloids in other posts, that was in reference to what you made, i.e., colloidal silver and gold. To me, that was quite clear from the context, but if not, hopefully it is clear now.

 

[squidstings]

Not just as a rule; a matter of law. And that includes 'nudge nudge wink wink' wording, testimonials, and products without claims but sold because the customer thinks the magic ingredient has healing powers.

"silver" has been called "Healing" for centuries. The rule is $$. Only then do "Law's" get written.

Burn wards aren't using the colloidal silver available on amazon or other DIY sources, many of which are just tap water and none of which would be as hygienically produced or packaged as medical grade.

"Medical Grade"? wink, wink, nudge nudge?

Did you know that DOCTORS,kill more people EVERY year than guns, drunk drivers AND backyard pools, COMBINED?

You bring up a totally different point here.

Colloidal silver is H2OAGn. Tap water isn't just H2O. Therefore, ANY other ingredients make it something other than. False advertising, right?
And, you CAN get "medical grade" on Amazon.

Always good going a little off topic. But you did read the part about "Gift" right? Just checking

Thank you, I am aware. The term "colloidal magnesium" was not anywehre in any of my posts. To the extent I referred to colloids in other posts, that was in reference to what you made, i.e., colloidal silver and gold. To me, that was quite clear from the context, but if not, hopefully it is clear now.

I find calling something by a word that means something else is ALWAYS confusing. That's never kind.

 

[AliOop]

I find calling something by a word that means something else is ALWAYS confusing. That's never kind.

I have no idea what you mean by this. I never used the term “colloidal magnesium,” or “colloidal” in reference to using magnesium.

 

[squidstings]

I have no idea what you mean by this. I never used the term “colloidal magnesium,” or “colloidal” in reference to using magnesium.

Confused a couple posts.

Same problem with whoever came up with calling something water based "Oil".

Big problem with society in general, by my observational opinion. We all grew up with the same dictionary. Yet so many use their own private one then blame everyone else for not understanding. How can that fall on the side of "good"?

 

[AliOop]

Same problem with whoever came up with calling something water based "Oil".

… which is exactly why I put quotation marks around the word “oil” in my post about magnesium “oil, ” and provided an explanation of that odd term.

And while I agree with you that it is scientifically incorrect to use the term “oil” in that context, that is how you will find the recipes when searching on the Internet. So I can’t call it something else - even if that would be more scientifically accurate - without disrupting the search results. Kind of like using the terms “balm“ or “salve” for an emulsified product.

 

[squidstings]

… which is exactly why I put quotation marks around the word “oil” in my post about magnesium “oil, ” and provided an explanation of that odd term.

And while I agree with you that it is scientifically incorrect to use the term “oil” in that context, that is how you will find the recipes when searching on the Internet. So I can’t call it something else - even if that would be more scientifically accurate - without disrupting the search results. Kind of like using the terms “balm“ or “salve” for an emulsified product.

You've been very helpful AliOop
Thank you :-D

 

[paradisi]

"silver" has been called "Healing" for centuries. The rule is $$. Only then do "Law's" get written.


"Medical Grade"? wink, wink, nudge nudge?

Did you know that DOCTORS,kill more people EVERY year than guns, drunk drivers AND backyard pools, COMBINED?

You bring up a totally different point here.

Colloidal silver is H2OAGn. Tap water isn't just H2O. Therefore, ANY other ingredients make it something other than. False advertising, right?
And, you CAN get "medical grade" on Amazon.

Always good going a little off topic. But you did read the part about "Gift" right? Just checking

Absolute nonsense. Sneering about things you don't like doesn't invalidate laws, and repeating conspiracy claims about medicine and science is not smart.

The FDA has teeth now, to enforce its regulations, with the MOCRA act; and Health Canada isn't fond of DIY makers skirting its regs either.

 

[squidstings]

Absolute nonsense. Sneering about things you don't like doesn't invalidate laws, and repeating conspiracy claims about medicine and science is not smart.

I'm on here sharing a "gift". You disregard my reminder, ignore my question and stay on legality of "for sale". Who's "sneering"? Takes one to make the accusation, I've always observed. You don't like gifts?

The FDA has teeth now, to enforce its regulations, with the MOCRA act; and Health Canada isn't fond of DIY makers skirting its regs either.

And, how do these things relate to a "GIFT" Bold underline and italicized ONLY to ensure you actually see the word. Not Yelling. Just doing my best to make sure MY words are getting through.

 

[artemis]

Never mind.