ACV in soap

[jesfayven]

Hello,
I saw a video on YouTube today where a woman replaced all of her water with ACV for her shampoo bars. The oils were also infused with marshmallow root which I thought was a great idea. I always thought ACV wouldn't be good in soapmaking. I've tried to look through the threads and there are mentions of vinegar but not a great talk about it. What does it do? What are the benefits? I have read elsewhere that vinegar is already diluted with water. If you use full replacement in your soap there will be a small percentage of superfat because of this. Maybe the chemists in the group can give some insight? TIA!

 

[DeeAnna]

Lots 'n lots of good info on this topic. If you're using the SMF search function, it's not as good as Google. See https://www.google.com/search?q=vinegar+site:soapmakingforum.com

Also see https://classicbells.com/soap/aceticAcid.html

 

[earlene]

I have not used ACV in soap because it has so much sediment that would show up in the soap. What I used vinegar for in soap was to create sodium acetate to help harden the soap. You would get SA with ACV as well, but for what purpose would you wan to use the ACV instead of plain vinegar? Since the video person was using it in a shampoo bar, I am guessing she thought the characteristics of ACV would remain in the soap. I am not convinced that would actually be the case, though. Once the lye meets the ingredient, the reaction changes the chemical make-up of all involved.

 

[jesfayven]

Thank you!!

 

[DeeAnna]

Some apple cider vinegar has sediment -- Braggs for instance -- but other brands do not. The vinegar I use for pickling is perfectly clear -- no sediment -- so it wouldn't cause problems in the soap.

ACV has a reputation in folk medicine as somehow having broad health benefits, so I suppose that's why people use ACV in soap. I don't think it makes any particular difference, but it's not doing any harm either.

 

[earlene]

Maybe my ACV is just really old. Even my non-Bragg's has sediment. Granted, I don't use it very often, so it really is quite old. Not even sure why I even still have it, since I don't even use it but once every couple of years or so.

 

[DeeAnna]

<laughing> Yes, @earlene, that might explain your experience! I think it's hard to keep the bacteria in even pasteurized vinegar from eventually growing again, which is probably why you're seeing the sediment.

 

[KimT2au]

If the lady on YouTube replaced all her water with ACV and the AA in vinegar neutralises the lye then surely this lady must have been using enormous amounts of lye to make her shampoo bars. I would be really curious to see the video. Would you post a link @jesfayven ?

 

[DeeAnna]

One ounce (28 grams) of 5% commercial vinegar will neutralize about 1 gram of NaOH. If I used my most recent recipe, subbed vinegar for all of the water, and didn't add any extra NaOH for the vinegar, the vinegar-lye neutralization would raise the superfat by 7-8%. To avoid this, I would have to add about 18 more grams of NaOH for vinegar neutralization in addition to 225 grams of NaOH for saponification.

 

[lakelodge]

Hello,
I saw a video on YouTube today where a woman replaced all of her water with ACV for her shampoo bars. The oils were also infused with marshmallow root which I thought was a great idea. I always thought ACV wouldn't be good in soapmaking. I've tried to look through the threads and there are mentions of vinegar but not a great talk about it. What does it do? What are the benefits? I have read elsewhere that vinegar is already diluted with water. If you use full replacement in your soap there will be a small percentage of superfat because of this. Maybe the chemists in the group can give some insight? TIA!

I think I just saw that video the other day, as I was curious and then figured that by the time they combined the lye would change the ACV in some way, it would lose it's 'super powers' . As I thought about it more, on a business sense, it made more sense to keep my ACV hair rinse, it is another product purchase to combine with the shampoo bars, plus the ACV in it's liquid form is better for the scalp and hair. I have such an awful dry scalp and I use ACV and it has done such a great job at helping my scalp to be healthier. It always itched too, but not so much anymore, not to mention the shine.....ACV, does so many wonderful things.

 

[KiwiMoose]

ACV has a reputation in folk medicine as somehow having broad health benefits, so I suppose that's why people use ACV in soap. I don't think it makes any particular difference, but it's not doing any harm either.

In terms of nutrition ACV and lemon juice are both good to take (digest) everyday to neutralise the acid in one's body. Although i read here that they can lower the pH in soap, taken internally they do the opposite. They actually are alkaline in the system, and they help to offset the mostly acid diet western culture seems to have. I start the day every morning with squeezed lemon juice in water.

Some of the highest acid forming foods are sugar-based food, and the wider carbohydrate family. Also most meats. And of course any packaged food which is full of all sorts of additives. Non-natural sweeteners also contribute to increasing the acid in our bodies. More recently some health professionals are even claiming that cancer can exist much more easily in bodies that are highly acidic - with a friend of ours undergoing cancer treatment being told to keep right off any sugary foods and go back to basics, paleo style.

 

[DeeAnna]

Acids don't lower the pH of soap to any significant degree while the soap is still soap. I know this misinformation is passed around a lot in the soaping community, but just because this "fact" is widespread doesn't make it true.

Soap is a buffer, as chemists use the term. A buffer is any chemical that has the ability to maintain a relatively stable pH in response to adding acids or alkalis. Speaking in human-centric terms, soap that's not lye-heavy would rather decompose in response to an acid than allow the pH to change much.

If you add so much acid that the soap breaks down into mostly fatty acids, then the buffering action is lost and the pH will drop sharply thereafter as you add more acid. But at that point, you really don't have soap anymore; you have a paste of fatty acids.

 

[Candybee]

The sediment in ACV you mention, are you sure that is not the "mother"? Not all ACV's have the mother in them, but those that do look like they have a lot of sediment in them. You usually have to shake the bottle to mix it back in.