A few questions from a new soap maker!

[Bouke285]

Hi all I'm about to make my very first batch of CP and I've been doing a LOT of research. There have been 3 questions I can't find answers to, they have been bogging me down.

1. If making milk soap is better for the skin why is there ever a reason not to replace the water in your recipe with some form of milk? Why is it not more common?
2. I just rendered 5lbs of tallow last night an I am curious why the majority of recipes shy away from animal fat in their soap these days?
3. Is there some sort of chart that shows how an essential oil will react with Lye before using something that may ruin a batch? Thank you all for your time in helping me get over these hurdles!

 

[Lion Of Judah]

hi and welcome to you Bouke285. you ask some interesting questions and i will try answer them the best way i know how . others may be of different opinion but her goes: there are different ways to come up with products that is good for the skin, the basic one being the oils and butters that you use in your soaps , followed by water , milks , beers , and teas . most soap makers have their preferences of what they use and when . the reason why some shy away from animal fat in their soap is due to clientele that they may be try to attract , such as vegans and vegetarians and people who want something different.
as far as a chart for essential oils and how they react in batches most suppliers will tell you that information , i.e : vanilla , clove, and few other floral EO will cause seizing , ricing, and overheating , as well as discoloration. i'm sure that if you plug the question into the forum search a few helpful topics may pop up

 

[CaraBou]

Great questions, Bouke285, and welcome to the addiction I can see you are on your way if you've already rendered tallow before even making your very first soap. How cool! And very practical.

And speaking of tallow, I'll tackle that question first. Animal tallows make great soap. I am one who unabashedly uses and loves them. These days there are more and more vegetarians and vegans who avoid using animal products, so pleasing them (or being one) is probably the biggest reason people make all-vegetable oil soaps. Other people just may be overthinking it, because they'll eat (and otherwise use) animal products but somehow find it weird to create or use soap with them. To each his own I guess. Another reason is, near as I can tell, some people just don't want to use the word "lard" on their labels if they choose or are required to list their ingredients. There are likely other reasons, and sure others will chime in with them.

Now on to milk soaps... There are at least a few reasons besides the obvious animal product issue that both of us have already acknowledged. One thing just has to do with the plethora of awesome ingredients available in soap making. There are so many possibilities, and you can't use everything at once! Another is that the sugars in it may overheat or discolor your soap if you allow it to gel, and therefore conflict with other goals you have for that soap. Also, some people don't really think it is better for your skin than other ingredients, or that it may suppress bubbly lather, so they are not compelled to use it. It all comes down to what you want from your soap, how much you want to spend on it, and who you think will be using it.

As for the essential oils and fragrance oils, there are a number of resources you can use to help determine how it will behave in soap or, perhaps more importantly, on your skin. To help you get started, here is one on EOs http://candleandsoap.about.com/od/essentialoilprofiles/tp/essentialoilsafetylist.htm
and here is on one FOs: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...authkey=CMTEtswL&hl=en&authkey=CMTEtswL#gid=0

It sounds like you came here with an open mind. Go with it, and have fun!

 

[Dennis]

Beef tallow and lard make great soap! It is a much loved ingredient by many. It is cheap and readily available. I keep it on hand all the time. Yes, the wife tends to fuss a bit when I fry a burger in lard, but not until after she has finished eating it! Yum.

 

[Susie]

I am one of those folks that think that milk is often an unnecessary ingredient. I find that using animal fats in my soaps makes the whole milk step unnecessary. And I am a huge fan of simplicity. I don't sell my soap, though, and I really do understand that the label appeal of milk is a huge factor in sales.

 

[CaraBou]

Here's the result of a test I did on powdered GM vs. pure water soap. In most categories, people preferred the water soap. Surprised the heck out of me!

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=44167

 

[Susie]

I missed that original post. But, I am not surprised in the least by the results. It matches my personal results exactly. I DO understand the need for label appeal for people who sell. There is a huge market out there for what the public perceives is the better product. But, if I sold, I might be guilty of using an ounce or two just to be able to put it on the label.

 

[CaraBou]

I am not surprised in the least by the results. It matches my personal results exactly.

Good to know, Susie. Is that for powdered milks, regular, or both?

 

[IrishLass]

Welcome Bouke285!

1. If making milk soap is better for the skin why is there ever a reason not to replace the water in your recipe with some form of milk? Why is it not more common?

Actually, it's probably more common than you think, but as everyone else has said already, it pretty much comes down to a matter of preference. I myself have 3 soaps that I make using milk (my salt bars, my avocado bars, and my oatmeal, milk & honey bars). All the rest get made with water or sometimes cucumber or carrot juice, etc... I don't necessarily feel that my milk soaps are any better for my skin than my soaps made with water (both feel great to my skin), but my milk soaps do make the lather feel more creamy. At least to me they do.

2. I just rendered 5lbs of tallow last night an I am curious why the majority of recipes shy away from animal fat in their soap these days?

Again, it's all a matter of preference. As already noted by many here, some avoid them for vegan or vegetarian reasons, some are just plain squeamish about using them, and some may have religious reasons (lard, for instance, is forbidden in both the Jewish and Muslim religions).

I, for one, love tallow (and lard) in my soap. As a matter of fact, one of my main formulas contains both tallow and lard. One of these days, I would love to get my hands on some leaf lard- not for soap, but for making pie crusts. Yum!

3. Is there some sort of chart that shows how an essential oil will react with Lye before using something that may ruin a batch? Thank you all for your time in helping me get over these hurdles!

Here is an excellent interview with Dr. Kevin Dunn (the author of 'Scientific Soapmaking') about using essential oils in soap. At the end of the interview, there is a chart of essential oils that references their reactivity and boiling points: http://roberttisserand.com/2011/06/essential-oils-in-soap-interview-with-kevin-dunn/


HTH!
IrishLass

 

[Susie]

Good to know, Susie. Is that for powdered milks, regular, or both?

In order of when I tried what:

Liquid(then frozen) GM
Powdered GM(got a lot left over)
Frozen evaporated cow milk
Frozen whole milk
Frozen coconut milk with additives
Frozen coconut milk with no additives

All of my family and now the friends overwhelmingly like the lard soaps better. These were blind tests with only different colors to tell them apart. The scents were identical. The non-milk bars did not have any extra special oils or sugar to help with conditioning or lather. Same SF. Only difference was palm for milk soaps and lard for non-milk.

 

[marie743]

When a recipe calls for tallow, can I use store bought lard that comes in a can in the oil isle? I'm new to soap making and don't know for sure what this term means.

 

[Susie]

Tallow is cow(beef) fat or sheep fat. Lard is pig(pork) fat. They are really similar, but not quite the same. I buy my lard at the grocery store in the tubs or from local pig farmers, depending on availability.

 

[IrishLass]

When a recipe calls for tallow, can I use store bought lard that comes in a can in the oil isle? I'm new to soap making and don't know for sure what this term means.

Ditto what Susie said- lard is the rendered fat from pigs, and tallow is the rendered fat from cows or sheep (as well as bears, goats and deer). Lard gets a specially designated name all its own because there are those who avoid all pork products for religious reasons (it's seriously off-limits/not kosher to the Jewish and Muslim people).

If you substitute lard for tallow, just make sure you take into account the different SAP number (the number that determines how much lye it will take to saponify whichever fat), because the SAP # of lard is different than the SAP # of tallow.

IrishLass

 

[Birdie Wife]

I use lard in most of my soaps. I make some veggie soaps but the oil with the best 'fit' as a substitute for lard is palm oil, which I won't use, so I'll stick with the lard, and I've had no complaints so far ;-)

Regarding milk, I think it's not used as much because of the extra hassle factor of having to freeze it first. That means you can't do a master batch of lye solution like you can with water, and slows down the process considerably.

 

[marie743]

new soap maker

Thanks for the info; where is the best place to buy supplies?

 

[Susie]

There is no single best place to order supplies from. One place may be the best to order lyes from for small scale soapers, one may be best for larger scale soapers. Some may be best to order EO's from, some FO's from.

Therefore, please be more specific on what you want to order to get an answer.

 

[shunt2011]

Hello and welcome. If you are purchasing small amounts you can probably find them in your local stores/costco/sams club. Some other suppliers would be Essential Depot for lye, and for other soaping supplies , Wholesale Supplies Plus, Nature's Garden, Majestic Mountain Sage, Brambleberry, Elements Bath & Body for starters. You will want to fine supplies that will work best for you both price and shipping wise.

 

[IrishLass]

Regarding milk, I think it's not used as much because of the extra hassle factor of having to freeze it first. That means you can't do a master batch of lye solution like you can with water, and slows down the process considerably.

There's actually a wonderful trick you can use to get around that called 'the split method' (do a search using +split +method +milk). That's the method I use when I make my milk soaps.

Basically, I use my master-batched 50% lye solution to account for 1/2 of my soap batch's water amount, and then I use 1/2 fresh refrigerated (not frozen) goat-milk or coconut milk subbed in for the remainder of my water amount. The milk gets stickblended into to my oils before stirring in my lye solution. That'll make a 50% milk soap.

If I want to increase the milk % to make a 100% milk soap using this method, I just dissolve enough goat-milk or coconut powder into the fresh milk to bump up the concentration to the appropriate level. Or if I don't have any fresh milk on hand, I'll use 1/2 water in place of the fresh milk amount and add enough powder to it in order to give my soap whatever milk concentration I desire.

I really love this method because it's quick, easy and hassle-free for me (and I'm all for quick, easy and hassle-free if it can be done that way! lol) And best yet, my soap comes out to a nice creamy/off-white.


IrishLass

 

[Bouke285]

Thanks for all the tips everyone! Would using animal fats in some soaps prevent me from selling even vegan soaps to some customers if I ever go that direction?

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Thanks for all the tips everyone! Would using animal fats in some soaps prevent me from selling even vegan soaps to some customers if I ever go that direction?

I would think so! But then palm oil can almost be used in exchange for lard (almost, as it does feel a bit different) but then palm also has issues for some people because of how some palm is produced.

Shea butter can be used to replace both palm and lard, but it is more expensive and also higher amounts of butter can make it harder to lather a bar.

You could do what many people do, make some soaps with and some with out - a choice for the customer.