2nd Attempt at Hot Process

[Jarrett Clay]

The second attempt at hot process went much better. The first picture is this latest batch, the second picture is the initial batch. I have cut them into different widths because I am curious how the curing process will affect the width. Here is my recipe. All percentages are of total recipe:

Water Phase:
Distilled Water-16.28%
Lye NaOH- 7.14%
Citric Acid- 1.03%

Oil Phase:
Tallow- 18.04%
Refined Coconut Oil- 18.04%
Lanolin- 7.72%
Jojoba Butter- 4.73%
Castor Oil- 7.73%

Post Cook Additives:
Sour Cream (I ran out of yogurt and didn't realize until I started)- 5.15%
Molasses- 5.15%
Rosemary Oleoresin- 0.47%
Goat Milk Powder- 2.58%
Kaolin Clay- 0.52%
Emu Oil- 2.58%
Pine Resin- 2.58%
Cinnamon Leaf EO- 0.26%

Notes:
I ran the initial batch way too hot and it got really dry, hence the crumbly nature. I was able to rebatch it with some other soap I had and added goat's milk. It came out fine once I let it cure for a few weeks.

This new batch I made sure I mixed the water/lye solution first and let it cool before adding it to the hot oil mixture. I also set the crockpot to keep warm instead of low like last time. This new batch was more fluid than the original. once it gelled and I mixed the post-cook additives, I poured it into the mold and let it set overnight to allow any remaining saponification. I then put it into the freezer for 12 hours. I have read that putting it into the freezer can help the crystallization process along. I cut it into pieces. I plan on weighing it weekly until I see little change in weight for the curing process. It is a touch sticky. I am assuming this is probably from the lanolin and hopefully it will go away as it cures.

Thoughts?

 

[AliOop]

The new bars look so much better -
great job!

I would recommend a piece of parchment paper or a silicone mat between the soap and the metal rack. Due to the high alkalinity of soap (esp fresh soap), the racks can develop cracks or subtle wearing of the stainless finish, exposing the soap to other metals underneath. That can trigger DOS.

I do love how you improvised with sour cream instead of yogurt. Nicely played!

 

[Jarrett Clay]

The new bars look so much better -
great job!

I would recommend a piece of parchment paper or a silicone mat between the soap and the metal rack. Due to the high alkalinity of soap (esp fresh soap), the racks can develop cracks or subtle wearing of the stainless finish, exposing the soap to other metals underneath. That can trigger DOS.

I do love how you improvised with sour cream instead of yogurt. Nicely played!

That's a great point about the alkalinity and the metal. I just wanted to be sure it was getting a lot of airflow. I have a large silicone mat I can use. Thanks for that insight!

 

[lsg]

A wooden dish rack also works well.

 

[Mrsfarmgirl75]

Hello all,

I did a Ph test and it come out 13. How do I lower this in HP?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Ekuzo]

Hello all,

I did a Ph test and it come out 13. How do I lower this in HP?

Thanks in advance.

Does it zap?

 

[Mrsfarmgirl75]

Does it zap?

No zap,but the test strip showed 13

 

[AliOop]

No zap,but the test strip showed 13

That's pretty normal for freshly made soap. It will probably come down a bit as it cures. Just remember that true soap (made with lye + oils) is going to be at least 9 pH, and frequently much higher. The pH does not tell you whether it is lye heavy or not. You can read more about that here.

 

[Mrsfarmgirl75]

That's pretty normal for freshly made soap. It will probably come down a bit as it cures. Just remember that true soap (made with lye + oils) is going to be at least 9 pH, and frequently much higher. The pH does not tell you whether it is lye heavy or not. You can read more about that here.

With this recipe through soapcalc. I would have thought this would feel more moisturizing than what it did.
I'll give it a couple of weeks and I'll test again.

 

[Ekuzo]

No zap,but the test strip showed 13

If you thoroughly checked it for zap (for example, on all sides) and there's none, there's nothing to worry about. The 13 pH reading is likely false, as I'm sure if it was correct, it would have zapped. Don't rely on strip testers, as most of the time, we don't test properly with them. And even when we do, their reading can still be off

 

[AliOop]

@Mrsfarmgirl75 thank you for sharing the recipe - that's helps figure out what was going on. It is a very unusual recipe, so I hope you don't mind some feedback?

1. Castor oil can play a starring role to make a lovely liquid soap (made with KOH instead of NaOH), but it's more of a supporting actor in most bar soaps. For bar soap, most folks stick to 5% castor, although some go up to 10%. Beyond that, it can make the bar soft, rubbery, or sticky. A good thing to keep in mind is that the ricinoleic fatty acid doesn't create lather, but it will support lather provided by other FAs.

2. Beeswax is also unusually high at almost 6%; a more typical usage rate is 1-2% because it will accelerate the batter, dampen lather and make the bar feel kind of plastic-y.

3. How did you add "Milk Fat" at 20g? Regular whole milk is less than 5% fat, IIRC, so if you put in 20g of whole milk, you had far less than 20g of saponifiable milk fat, leaving you with a much lower superfat than you planned.

Using the same oils that you used, I would change the percentages to:

30% Olive oil
30% Babassu oil
30% Shea butter + mango butter combined (any percentage of each)
8% castor oil
2% beeswax

Set the superfat to 3%. After the cook, add 1-2 Tbsp of warm milk or yogurt per pound of oils. This will help with batter fluidity and boost the superfat as well.

 

[Mrsfarmgirl75]

I absolutely love feedback.
And thank you for sharing your opinion on this.
I will try the %s you have given.
I did test strip and the Ph has gone down into the olive green which is between 8&9.

Thanks again

 

[AliOop]

You are very welcome! Just an FYI about the pH... those strips that are made for testing pool water aren't really accurate for soap. So, the real pH of your soap is probably between 10-12, which is just fine for handcrafted soap.

Maybe leave out the beeswax altogether and put that 2% into the shea + mango percentage. With the higher amount of butters, this soap should be hard enough without that.

Good luck, and let us know how your next batch goes!

 

[Mrsfarmgirl75]

Since I've omitted the coconut oils I'm experimenting different butters/oils/waxes/milks to see how they react,their properties and which ones do their job nicely and what they should be doing.

 

[Olawaleprecious]

Hello all,

I did a Ph test and it come out 13. How do I lower this in HP?

Thanks in advance.

Use citric acid solution to reduce the ph: how to make citric acid solution use mix 50% citric acid and 50%distilled water mix together and add drops little by little to and check the ph again.

 

[Ekuzo]

Since I've omitted the coconut oils I'm experimenting different butters/oils/waxes/milks to see how they react,their properties and which ones do their job nicely and what they should be doing.View attachment 78830View attachment 78831View attachment 78832

Beautiful soap!

When I was writing my previous post, the one with the recipe was not present yet (probably it was moderated or something idk), but I agree with what was said after that.

Keep in mind that babassu has similar FA content as CO and if it's too much it can give you a harsh soap. I don't mind soap with high lauric/myristic content, but if you find it too drying (you mentioned you found the soap not as much 'moisturizing' as you expected), you may want to decrease the babassu and play around with the %'s. Also, give it some time, soap gets milder as it cures.

Use citric acid solution to reduce the ph: how to make citric acid solution use mix 50% citric acid and 50%distilled water mix together and add drops little by little to and check the ph again.

Citric acid does not reduce the pH level of the soap. What it does is "consume" a bit of the NaOH and produce sodium citrate, which is a chelating agent. By consuming some of the hydroxide, it increases the SF slightly (if you don't add more NaOH to compensate for it). I think (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that you can add any sort of additive in a big enough amount into the soap (thus reducing the % of the real soap salts content in the bar) and thus getting a lower pH reading (again, I'm not a chemist and my experiments haven't gone that far, it's just a theory based on what I know). But that DOES NOT mean you will get a good and fully functional soap. Hand crafted lye soap bars are supposed to be with high pH by definition. For example, you can theoretically make soap with 30% flour in it and the pH should be lower than that of a regular soap, but it most likely won't be something you can successfully use in the shower. I hope that makes sense.

 

[AliOop]

Use citric acid solution to reduce the ph: how to make citric acid solution use mix 50% citric acid and 50%distilled water mix together and add drops little by little to and check the ph again.

Are you thinking of liquid soap? Some folks use a citric acid solution to correct a lye excess in liquid soap, not really to lower the pH per se.

If you use citric acid to attempt to lower the pH of bar soap, you can end up with an oily, separated mess. Also, the cheap paper pH strips are not accurate for soap - their results will show 2-3 points lower than the true pH of the soap.

This is a huge misconception in the soaping world, based on a misunderstanding of soap chemistry. Please read more about about soap pH in this excellent article.