Zap Test

[Jack]

I am a real coward when it comes to pain and prior to today, I had only done the zap test on a bar I made 20 years ago and a commercial bar.

Today I got real bold and tongued a few bars recently made and tasted nothing, like not even flavor let alone pain.

I have one problem bar made about two weeks ago with a present pH of 12.25 and guess what, no zap no nothing.

I was going to run some experiments to see at what pH the zap appears in order to quantify this test but it seems pointless now.

My pH meter is lab quality ($350) with .01 unit resolution and I calibrated it this morning.

What am I missing? Or what are others missing that rely on the zap test?

Does anyone out there have a pH meter with which to confirm this?

One more point, it's not my tongue as my wife verified with hers.

Jack

 

[squigglz]

The zap test doesn't really hurt, it just sort of tingles a little. Neither I nor my customers have had an issue with harshness/causticness in bars where the loaf it's from has been zap tested (obviously, I cut a sliver off to zap test, I don't lick every bar, lol).

I don't think any of us are missing anything.

I think you should still run the test-it would be interesting to see the results! If I had ph strips, I would =P

 

[Jack]

Here is an update on my Zap Test posting.

First of all, after poking my tongue at a number of different locations on my pH 12 bar, I did indeed learn what the zap is all about and cutting it in half and tasting the center was most unpleasant.

What this seems to say is that using the tongue to test a bar that has been curing in the air for a few weeks has to be done with the idea of false negatives being very likely unless the bar is cut or a core sample taken.

Secondly, an email exchange with Dr Dunn turned up lots interesting tidbits.

Most relevant here is that the tongue is measuring total alkali (TA) and not pH. One can put a few specks of NaOh in a glass of water and taste nothing but the pH will be around 12. If you add NaOh to the glass until it zaps the pH will still be 12. So, my idea of determining the zap point with a pH meter is useless.

The good news is that I have stumbled upon a painless and fool proof zap test that seems to work extremely well and costs less than $5 to build. My entrepreneurial blood is warming up but I think I will just pass along how to do it and not try to get rich.

I need to sort out a few things so I will save it for another posting.

Jack

 

[melstan775]

Here is an update on my Zap Test posting.

First of all, after poking my tongue at a number of different locations on my pH 12 bar, I did indeed learn what the zap is all about and cutting it in half and tasting the center was most unpleasant.

What might the experiment results yield if you tried plugging your phone charger into that soap center? :mrgreen:

 

[Jack]

What might the experiment results yield if you tried plugging your phone charger into that soap center? :mrgreen:

If you plugged the phone into the soap you would be getting close to my painless zap tester.

Jack

 

[squigglz]

Here is an update on my Zap Test posting.

First of all, after poking my tongue at a number of different locations on my pH 12 bar, I did indeed learn what the zap is all about and cutting it in half and tasting the center was most unpleasant.

What this seems to say is that using the tongue to test a bar that has been curing in the air for a few weeks has to be done with the idea of false negatives being very likely unless the bar is cut or a core sample taken.

Secondly, an email exchange with Dr Dunn turned up lots interesting tidbits.

Most relevant here is that the tongue is measuring total alkali (TA) and not pH. One can put a few specks of NaOh in a glass of water and taste nothing but the pH will be around 12. If you add NaOh to the glass until it zaps the pH will still be 12. So, my idea of determining the zap point with a pH meter is useless.

The good news is that I have stumbled upon a painless and fool proof zap test that seems to work extremely well and costs less than $5 to build. My entrepreneurial blood is warming up but I think I will just pass along how to do it and not try to get rich.

I need to sort out a few things so I will save it for another posting.

Jack

I wouldn't worry about it-most inventions fail/aren't moneymakers, and since this is a case of 'fixing something that isn't broken', I don't think you're losing any money on it.

But hey, whatever floats your boat

 

[melstan775]

If you plugged the phone into the soap you would be getting close to my painless zap tester.

Jack

Well I was going for something like a really big "zap." Wettish, alkeli, battery... you know... fireworks in the house. Sayin! ;-)

 

[Jerry S]

So.....if my bars don't pass the zap test ...say 48 hours after I do a pour, where do I go from here?
Should I wait another few days and test them again...for zap
Throw the whole batch away and try to be more accurate in measuring my ingredients the next time..and the mixing process I've used...
I would love to here solutions...thanks ahead...
Rebatch the entire batch and put it in the oven for a period of time...
Most of the information that I have read tells all about the zap test...why one does it, how to do it etc etc etc...but I havent really found anywhere that mentions the solution to a failed zap test...

 

[Marilyna]

I don't see the need for a zap test. Just wash your hands with it and see how it feels. Its probably fine. If not wait a week or two and see.

 

[Jack]

So.....if my bars don't pass the zap test ...say 48 hours after I do a pour, where do I go from here?
Should I wait another few days and test them again.

What's your rush? Given enough time, it will self neutralize. The CO2 in the air will eventually reduce the total alkali to a reasonable level. It may take a month or a year but certainly don't throw it away.

js

 

[CaliChan]

So.....if my bars don't pass the zap test ...say 48 hours after I do a pour, where do I go from here?
Should I wait another few days and test them again...for zap
Throw the whole batch away and try to be more accurate in measuring my ingredients the next time..and the mixing process I've used...
I would love to here solutions...thanks ahead...
Rebatch the entire batch and put it in the oven for a period of time...
Most of the information that I have read tells all about the zap test...why one does it, how to do it etc etc etc...but I havent really found anywhere that mentions the solution to a failed zap test...

My first batch of soap was really lye heavy.... and I didn't measure everything out right so I grafted it all up and mixed it with baking soda and use it to clean my tub and bath. And put it in my laundry soap. By all means don't throw it out!!

 

[new12soap]

So.....if my bars don't pass the zap test ...say 48 hours after I do a pour, where do I go from here?
Should I wait another few days and test them again...for zap
Throw the whole batch away and try to be more accurate in measuring my ingredients the next time..and the mixing process I've used...
I would love to here solutions...thanks ahead...
Rebatch the entire batch and put it in the oven for a period of time...
Most of the information that I have read tells all about the zap test...why one does it, how to do it etc etc etc...but I havent really found anywhere that mentions the solution to a failed zap test...

If your soap did not gel it can continue to zap for several days. I would wait and try again after a week (that is if I zap tested). Are you not confident in your measuring or in your process? If you would like to post your recipe and any other pertinent information that makes it easier to troubleshoot, but at this point I would say don't worry about it.

 

[AlchemyandAshes]

What's your rush? Given enough time, it will self neutralize. The CO2 in the air will eventually reduce the total alkali to a reasonable level. It may take a month or a year but certainly don't throw it away.

js

Are you saying that even with a lye heavy soap, the CO2 in the air will remedy that?

Soap that is not lye heavy will zap until it has completed saponification, usually within 48 hours, but longer sometimes. After that, it will just taste like...well, soap.

The reason for using your tongue is that it is way more sensitive than your hands...and yes, we use soap on our skin and not our tongues (unless your mom thinks you have a sassy mouth) so you would think as long as it passes the skin test, its fine...but, your skin may not be as sensitive as someone else's and you may not notice the harshness that someone else would...though your tongue would definitely be more sensitive than anyone's skin should be.

There are a few options for lye heavy soap...rebatching, or grating for laundry soap. I never throw a batch of soap away until I've tried everything I can to save it. If you know where your mistake was made, like mismeasurement of lye...you can sometimes work backwards to figure how much oil you need to add to your rebatch to use up any free lye in your soap. I have done this with success. Sometimes rebatching it in a crockpot alone will help if it was just a problem of not being completely saponified or false trace/separation. Or simply (wearing gloves!) grate it up as fine as possible and use it for laundry soap...there are lots of great recipes for this adding washing powder and borax.

If your soap zaps after 48 hours and you don't think it's lye heavy, then leaving it for a few more days (or a week or two) may sort it self out. If its been 2 weeks and its still zapping, it's probably lye heavy, and you can remedy it with one of the suggestions above.

 

[Jerry S]

ZAP test...

Thanks everyone for your comments...I think I will wait a few days and see what complete saponification of this soap will bring....in the worst case....your ideas of shredding the soap and using it for laundry soap (worst case scenario) is probably what I'll do...
jerry

 

[Badger]

Yeah, my first soap was lye heavy and I made laundry soap out of it. I considered this a win-win situation. I learned something from the process, I didn't waste my ingredients, and I got to make laundry soap, which was another thing I wanted to do