Would these ingredients work for a soap bar?

[Zany_in_CO]

The sad thing was it was suposed to be a hypoallergenic body wash,

Since I have chemically sensitive skin, I learned early on to stay away from anything labelled "hypoallergenic"! LOL

Chamomile is a very gentle essential oil that is very beneficial to sensitive skin types.

True.

I have tallow, would that work in place of the lard?

Sorry, no. I have made both and often recommend lard with tea tree for treating teenage acne and other skin issues. Lard is cheap and easy to find locally. I can also send you a bar to test drive.

As far as the liquid soap goes, does that have as long of a shelf time to it as a bar of soap? Would I still have to treat it like Dr Bronner's Castile soap (by adding all the additives that make it gentler on my son's skin)?

Yep. LS has a long shelf life. I make a gallon at a time. I would try the soap "as is" first, plus lotion. You can feel free to tweak it from there if need be.

I think whatever I make I am going to add the lecithin because it helps so much with the liquid soap feel!

Good idea!

I made a saline solution that is 75% saline and 25% castor oil for my eye drops and my eyes went from arid dry to much more moisturized (and needing less drops now after using for a week).

That is SO COOL! I'm suffering with an issue with my right eye now. I can't wait to try your drops!

I absolutely adore Seabuckthorn - it is my favorite ingredient

Me too. Lovely stuff. Expensive, though.

From what I understand there are tests you can perform at home to see if your lotion has microbes forming in it.

That's called Product Challenge Testing. I've heard that such a thing exists but I never tried one and don't know where you would find one. You might want to start another thread in the Bath & Body Forum for advice.

 

[AliOop]

Thank you, I will definitely look into this! Now, back to my research paper... lol

Can you make this the subject of your research paper? Two birds, etc etc

 

[Christa10]

Thanks! I don't typically use very much Coconut oil. I typically use (in my oil blend for the lotion) around 50% Cocoa Butter, 20% Jojoba oil, 15% Castor oil, 10% Coconut oil with vitamin E, 4% Seabuckthorn oil and 1% Chamomile oil, with a few drops of Tea tree oil. (I would use more Seabuckthorn oil, because I LOVE it but it tends to dye our pale skin orange, lol, so I have to keep it in low concentrations in my products...)

I have recently made some tallow as someone gifted me beef fat. For the soap would tallow be similar to the cocoa butter? Should I maybe do 25% of each (tallow and cocoa butter)l? Would that work, or would that make too hard of a bar?

I really don't care about how much it would cost, that really matters not to me. What matters to me is if it works well on my son's skin...

Brambleberry has a Buckthorn Extract that is clear and very good for skin. You might like to try that: Buckthorn Extract | BrambleBerry

Also, I have used oil that has been infused with calendula, which is very good for the skin. You can use whichever oil you prefer - I used hemp seed oil. Hopefully someone in this thread has encouraged you to use a soap calculator to determine what oils and how much lye you need in your recipe. Another good soap for sensitive skin is called Aleppo soap, made with just olive oil and laurel berry oil (not laurel essential oil). Laurel Berry Oil Laurel Fruit Oil Soap Oil 2 Lbs - Etsy

 

[lenarenee]

From what I understand there are tests you can perform at home to see if your lotion has microbes forming in it. I plan to get a couple of them and check on his lotion periodically. According to studies, the preservative I have should work, but you just never know.

There are home tests, and while they're better than nothing, they are still pretty iffy. Microbes love the sugars that come from milks and plants....and that would include chamomile powder or tea. CMZAHA is a long time member here who sold professionally for many many years. She recommends using 2 preservatives for a plain lotion with no milks or herbs - and advocates strongly for independent testing. She may be a good source of info for you.

A few years ago I was using lotion from a cottage business who sold - and still sells - on Amazon - despite her preservative system I still found a large fuzzy string of army green mold or fungus in the bottle. Two strings actually - each over an inch long. After that I never made my own lotion again - and only buy commercial stuff.

As you probably know - by the time you can see microbial growth with a naked eye - it's a massive infection. I've read that keeping the lotion refrigerated can help also, but again it's not a replacement for a good preservation.

I'll also leave this for you because she's another source of really good information and is highly respected, but its a LOT of information to work through.
https://www.swiftcraftymonkey.blog

 

[Zing]

I'm reading this with complete fascination! It seems like just a few weeks ago our babies fit on my forearm -- and now I have to look up at them and they're paying rent and living their lives.... All my favorite soap peeps have already weighed in so I don't have anything to add but wanted to welcome you here! And with complete due respect to my good good friend, @AliOop , papas are health advocates, too. I don't know all the ins and outs of cold process soap on babies -- but I will say I was not prepared for the positive turnaround the health of my skin and my family's made once I started making our own soap. Now even Dove Sensitive feels harsh.

Also, so very sorry about the burn! One of the surprise lessons for me to learn as a parent was thinking that "if it's on the shelf in a store, it must be safe." Not! Beware the toy aisles. So best of luck with the parenting thing and the soap thing. This is a great community as I'm sure you've discovered.

 

[AliOop]

@Zing you know I deliberately leave out the papas and husbands just to get under your skin so you have something to contribute, right?

 

[rebeccasartsstudio]

There are home tests, and while they're better than nothing, they are still pretty iffy. Microbes love the sugars that come from milks and plants....and that would include chamomile powder or tea. CMZAHA is a long time member here who sold professionally for many many years. She recommends using 2 preservatives for a plain lotion with no milks or herbs - and advocates strongly for independent testing. She may be a good source of info for you.

A few years ago I was using lotion from a cottage business who sold - and still sells - on Amazon - despite her preservative system I still found a large fuzzy string of army green mold or fungus in the bottle. Two strings actually - each over an inch long. After that I never made my own lotion again - and only buy commercial stuff.

As you probably know - by the time you can see microbial growth with a naked eye - it's a massive infection. I've read that keeping the lotion refrigerated can help also, but again it's not a replacement for a good preservation.

I'll also leave this for you because she's another source of really good information and is highly respected, but its a LOT of information to work through.
https://www.swiftcraftymonkey.blog

Thanks, I do use two preservatives in my lotion after much research to make sure I would get a broad spectrum preservative. I use Glucono delta-lactone and Sodium Benzoate. If I ever sold my lotion, I would sell it after just making and put a 6 month best by date on it. (Technically, these preservatives should work for atleast 1 year, but I would not want to risk it if selling to customers).

I'm reading this with complete fascination! It seems like just a few weeks ago our babies fit on my forearm -- and now I have to look up at them and they're paying rent and living their lives.... All my favorite soap peeps have already weighed in so I don't have anything to add but wanted to welcome you here! And with complete due respect to my good good friend, @AliOop , papas are health advocates, too. I don't know all the ins and outs of cold process soap on babies -- but I will say I was not prepared for the positive turnaround the health of my skin and my family's made once I started making our own soap. Now even Dove Sensitive feels harsh.

Also, so very sorry about the burn! One of the surprise lessons for me to learn as a parent was thinking that "if it's on the shelf in a store, it must be safe." Not! Beware the toy aisles. So best of luck with the parenting thing and the soap thing. This is a great community as I'm sure you've discovered.

Thank you! <3

Can you make this the subject of your research paper? Two birds, etc etc

Unfortunately not, lol. The subject is decided for us so my paper is rather dull. It discuses H & P documentation in the hospital system and the differences between federal and state regulations.

Oh my! I had no idea!

Then, if it t'were me, I would continue doing that. I make a Dr. B's hair & body shampoo (Liquid Soap) dupe. If you're interested in learning to make that, I'm happy to share the recipe.

I hear that! Ouch! Same thing happened to my daughter when she was little. The poor little one was miserable with a red rash all over until the pediatrician recommended I wash all her clothing and bed linens in Dreft. Cleared right up.

Lotion = Leave on product
Soap = Wash off product

Here's my thinking... continue to do what works, i.e., lotion + castile soap. If you like, I'm happy to send you a bar of ZNSC, plain or with tea tree EO to try. PM me if interested.

If it works, it's easy to make and may be the answer to your prayers. One can only hope...

Thank you. I am definitely considering making a liquid soap, but I would want to make it more conditioning then Dr Bronner's as I have to add many ingredients to make the soap more tolerable for my son's skin. I appreciate the offer, I have a friend that has already given me a few bars to try that is in my area so I feel a little overwhelmed atm. If her soaps don't work out, I will reach out to you if that is good with you.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Another good soap for sensitive skin is called Aleppo soap, made with just olive oil and laurel berry oil (not laurel essential oil). Laurel Berry Oil Laurel Fruit Oil Soap Oil 2 Lbs - Etsy

I also make Aleppo Soap. Excellent for sensitive skin.
I've found that Be Scented has consistently had the best price for laurel berry oil over the many years I've been making it. She also has a 1 lb. option... and lots of other "goodies".

If her soaps don't work out, I will reach out to you if that is good with you.

Sure. Happy to help if I can.

 

[Christa10]

I also make Aleppo Soap. Excellent for sensitive skin.
I've found that Be Scented has consistently had the best price for laurel berry oil over the many years I've been making it. She also has a 1 lb. option... and lots of other "goodies".

Yesterday I couldn't find the Laurel Berry oil on Be Scented, but it's listed on Etsy from Be Scented.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Here ya go: Be Scented Laurel Berry Oil

From what I understand there are tests you can perform at home to see if your lotion has microbes forming in it. I plan to get a couple of them and check on his lotion periodically. According to studies, the preservative I have should work, but you just never know.

While looking for something else, I ran into this from Lotion Crafter -- my favorite source for this type of product:

https://lotioncrafter.com/products/microbial-test-kit-4-pack-lotioncrafter
ETA: Also posted in Recommendations Forum for future reference.

 

[rebeccasartsstudio]

While looking for something else, I ran into this from Lotion Crafter -- my favorite source for this type of product:

https://lotioncrafter.com/products/microbial-test-kit-4-pack-lotioncrafter
ETA: Also posted in Recommendations Forum for future reference.

Hello again, yes, this is the one I have been looking at! Have you used it at all?

 

[cmzaha]

Thanks, I do use two preservatives in my lotion after much research to make sure I would get a broad spectrum preservative. I use Glucono delta-lactone and Sodium Benzoate. If I ever sold my lotion, I would sell it after just making and put a 6 month best by date on it. (Technically, these preservatives should work for atleast 1 year, but I would not want to risk it if selling to customers).

You say your preservative system should last a year but apparently, you do not know it will. Do your preservatives work with your surfactants and emulsifiers? Not all work together? My method was to use a test kit I purchased on lotion crafter after I let my lotions sit on the self for a period of time. If they tested clear a sample was sent out for challenge testing if it was a lotion I determined I wanted to add to my stock for selling. During my testing of different emulsifiers, I went through many failed lotions. With my method, I was fortunate that they would pass formal challenge testing but I was never comfortable selling without sending them out for testing. I also tested twice with the home test kits as they were not always reliable.

As for soaps for children or anyone with eczema I would not depend on any one soap working permanently, allergies can change from one day to the next. I have lived with eczema that can be life-threatening and I can tell you Essential oils can be extremely dangerous. BTW, I do better with a nice M&P soap than CP most of the time. They may be helping now, but tomorrow they may send one to the emergency room in Anaphylactic Shock. What looks like a chemical burn can still be a severe allergic reaction with huge blisters. When I was a child a doctor prescribed oatmeal baths for me. I was sent to emergency with "blisters" from burns. Nope, it was a severe allergic reaction from the oatmeal bath. Sometimes only medications help. We have a member whose child, now an adult had a horrific childhood due to extreme eczema or now he has found relief with one of the new medications on the market.

Soap made with tallow is more cleansing than soap made with lard, but a tallow/lard combination is a very nice soap with a low CO percentage. I will add that I agree with all that AliOop mentioned above. I will add that high OO soaps are very irritating but Avocado Oil in soaps I very nice on my skin. It always worked well in lotions but it is a bit oily.

​

.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

this is the one I have been looking at! Have you used it at all?

No, I haven't. I never felt the need over the 10 years making lotion for one of my wholesale customers. Also, at that time, "home test kits" were not available and it cost $300 to challenge test and every new batch required testing. I was not at that level of production/sales and it didn't make sense to me at the time.

I hafta say, though, I was OCD about Good Manufacturing Practices as well as saving a sample of each batch to keep an eye on it over a year's time.

 

[rebeccasartsstudio]

You say your preservative system should last a year but apparently, you do not know it will. Do your preservatives work with your surfactants and emulsifiers? Not all work together? My method was to use a test kit I purchased on lotion crafter after I let my lotions sit on the self for a period of time. If they tested clear a sample was sent out for challenge testing if it was a lotion I determined I wanted to add to my stock for selling. During my testing of different emulsifiers, I went through many failed lotions. With my method, I was fortunate that they would pass formal challenge testing but I was never comfortable selling without sending them out for testing. I also tested twice with the home test kits as they were not always reliable.

As for soaps for children or anyone with eczema I would not depend on any one soap working permanently, allergies can change from one day to the next. I have lived with eczema that can be life-threatening and I can tell you Essential oils can be extremely dangerous. BTW, I do better with a nice M&P soap than CP most of the time. They may be helping now, but tomorrow they may send one to the emergency room in Anaphylactic Shock. What looks like a chemical burn can still be a severe allergic reaction with huge blisters. When I was a child a doctor prescribed oatmeal baths for me. I was sent to emergency with "blisters" from burns. Nope, it was a severe allergic reaction from the oatmeal bath. Sometimes only medications help. We have a member whose child, now an adult had a horrific childhood due to extreme eczema or now he has found relief with one of the new medications on the market.

Soap made with tallow is more cleansing than soap made with lard, but a tallow/lard combination is a very nice soap with a low CO percentage. I will add that I agree with all that AliOop mentioned above. I will add that high OO soaps are very irritating but Avocado Oil in soaps I very nice on my skin. It always worked well in lotions but it is a bit oily.

​

.

Ok, let me make something clear. I am making this soap and the lotion I make for personal use. Considering I use two preservatives that are a wide spectrum preservative and natural preservatives I can assure you, the lotion is fine for the short amount of time I use it for myself and my son. I've never had to test it for long, but studies have said that my lotion would last for atleast a year... I personally don't care about that, because it doesn't stay on my shelf that long before I am finished with it.

My son was seen by several top-specialists in their field. It was not an allergic reaction... he also hasn't been diagnosed with eczema I am just an overcautious mother in that I noticed his sensitive skin acts a lot like an eczema patients would so I treat him similarly.

If his product randomly stopped working (which is a possibility) I would of course change the recipe at that point in time... but this is what is working for his skin atm so that is why I plan to use it. Essential oils like chamomile have been clinically proven to benefit eczema patients. I am not just willy nillying any and all essential oils into his product nor am I using a lot... I don't understand why y'all keep trying to act like you know my son's skin better then I do.

 

[cmzaha]

No, I haven't. I never felt the need over the 10 years making lotion for one of my wholesale customers. Also, at that time, "home test kits" were not available and it cost $300 to challenge test and every new batch required testing. I was not at that level of production/sales and it didn't make sense to me at the time.

I hafta say, though, I was OCD about Good Manufacturing Practices as well as saving a sample of each batch to keep an eye on it over a year's time.

I am also OCD about Good Manufacturing Practices and also saved a sample from each batch. But I was selling at outdoor markets and multiple markets per week. I found a local lab that was not charging us $300 although I do not remember the exact amount we were paying it was not cheap.

@Rebecca while you say you are just being cautious you had some reason for taking your son to numerous doctors as mentioned in your last post. I will also add this never get too casual about using certain oils in lotions. If your son shows tendencies toward allergies as I mentioned allergies can change on a daily basis. What once work can turn deadly so always be careful when dealing with children. I find good old vaseline the best, not many are allergic to it. Just as an example I had used Evening Primrose quite often which is known to be a nice oil for aging skin so I made a beautiful lotion with EP. I used it and had a horrendous reaction sending me to urgent care. My blood pressure was sky high and they would not treat me, wanting to send me to the hospital. I told the doctor to treat the reaction and my blood pressure would come down she argued and argued until my husband demanded she gives me a steroid shot before I went into Anaphylactic Shock and he sued them. I got the shot, my blood pressure started coming down and the attack was thwarted. Many times doctors do not recognize what eczema or any allergies can do. Another time we were in a canyon in Colorado on our bikes when I had an attack in the middle of the night. My husband called 911 well I was pegged as a biker considered on drugs and they were not going to do anything. He insisted they transport me because you never knew what my reactions would do, bottom line same thing happened at the little hospital. They figured I was either drinking or on drugs until all tests came back negative. No surprise there, I do not drink or do drugs but I was wearing leathers and we were on our way back from Sturgis. Talking about profiling at its finest. It was determined I had a reaction to gnats bites.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

My husband called 911 well I was pegged as a biker considered on drugs and they were not going to do anything.

Good grief!!!

 

[AliOop]

Ok, let me make something clear. I am making this soap and the lotion I make for personal use. Considering I use two preservatives that are a wide spectrum preservative and natural preservatives I can assure you, the lotion is fine for the short amount of time I use it for myself and my son. So please, settle down. I've never had to test it for long, but studies have said that my lotion would last for atleast a year... I personally don't care about that, because it doesn't stay on my shelf that long before I am finished with it.

My son was seen by several top-specialists in their field. It was not an allergic reaction... he also hasn't been diagnosed with eczema I am just an overcautious mother in that I noticed his sensitive skin acts a lot like an eczema patients would so I treat him similarly.

If his product randomly stopped working (which is a possibility) I would of course change the recipe at that point in time... but this is what is working for his skin atm so that is why I plan to use it. Essential oils like chamomile have been clinically proven to benefit eczema patients. I am not just willy nillying any and all essential oils into his product nor am I using a lot... I don't understand why y'all keep trying to act like you know my son's skin better then I do.

@rebeccasartsstudio I apologize if I came across that way. I think it is awesome that you have figured out what ingredients work for him.

My main concern was to express that the ingredients you mix into a lotion or a premade liquid soap, will often behave very differently when mixed into the batter of a bar soap, due to the chemical reactions that happen when making bar soap.

I am looking forward to hearing about the products you make and how they work for your son. Keep us posted!

 

[Zany_in_CO]

I found a local lab that was not charging us $300

Cindy Jones of Sagescript is just up the road a bit from me here in Colorado. She has a lavender farm that she recruits volunteers to harvest every year. LOL She also does challenge testing for far less than the big companies. It used to be $30 but I'm sure it's a lot more now. Dunno.

I don't understand why y'all keep trying to act like you know my son's skin better then I do.

Because you asked for help.

And we like to help/troubleshoot when we can. Thanks for continuing to inform. The more we know the more we can try to help. The more we know, the more we can, at the very least, empathize, sympathize and advise.

As I matter of fact I just found out earlier this week that a neighbor of mine has a 30-yo grandson with a severe skin condition like your son has!

I find good old vaseline the best, not many are allergic to it.

Carolyn, that's exactly what that young man does every night. So tragic really. He's miserable most of the time.

@rebeccasartsstudio I hope you continue with to engage in this discussion. It may help others.

OMG! I just had another thought. Have you always lived in Mesa?

I'm asking because my brother and my mother live in Phoenix. Whenever my sister visits my mother, she breaks out in a rash! She doesn't stay long and stays indoors.

My brother, a Dr. of Infectious Diseases, told us about a rare fungal condition known as "Valley Fever" that arises from exposure to the dirt/dust in AZ and the San Jaoquin Valley CA.

Sounds weird, I know. It's a long shot, but mentioning it can't hurt and might help?

 

[rebeccasartsstudio]

@rebeccasartsstudio I apologize if I came across that way. I think it is awesome that you have figured out what ingredients work for him.

My main concern was to express that the ingredients you mix into a lotion or a premade liquid soap, will often behave very differently when mixed into the batter of a bar soap, due to the chemical reactions that happen when making bar soap.

I am looking forward to hearing about the products you make and how they work for your son. Keep us posted!

I appreciate your help. The post you quoted wasn't in response to you though.

Because you asked for help.

And we like to help/troubleshoot when we can. Thanks for continuing to inform. The more we know the more we can try to help. The more we know, the more we can, at the very least, empathize, sympathize and advise.

As I matter of fact I just found out earlier this week that a neighbor of mine has a 30-yo grandson with a severe skin condition like your son has!

Carolyn, that's exactly what that young man does every night. So tragic really. He's miserable most of the time.

@rebeccasartsstudio I hope you continue with to engage in this discussion. It may help others.

I appreciate all the advise on how to make soap and what the ingredients I have talked about would do in a soap recipe - beyond that I really don't want any other advice.

I am also OCD about Good Manufacturing Practices and also saved a sample from each batch. But I was selling at outdoor markets and multiple markets per week. I found a local lab that was not charging us $300 although I do not remember the exact amount we were paying it was not cheap.

@Rebecca while you say you are just being cautious you had some reason for taking your son to numerous doctors as mentioned in your last post. I will also add this never get too casual about using certain oils in lotions. If your son shows tendencies toward allergies as I mentioned allergies can change on a daily basis. What once work can turn deadly so always be careful when dealing with children. I find good old vaseline the best, not many are allergic to it. Just as an example I had used Evening Primrose quite often which is known to be a nice oil for aging skin so I made a beautiful lotion with EP. I used it and had a horrendous reaction sending me to urgent care. My blood pressure was sky high and they would not treat me, wanting to send me to the hospital. I told the doctor to treat the reaction and my blood pressure would come down she argued and argued until my husband demanded she gives me a steroid shot before I went into Anaphylactic Shock and he sued them. I got the shot, my blood pressure started coming down and the attack was thwarted. Many times doctors do not recognize what eczema or any allergies can do. Another time we were in a canyon in Colorado on our bikes when I had an attack in the middle of the night. My husband called 911 well I was pegged as a biker considered on drugs and they were not going to do anything. He insisted they transport me because you never knew what my reactions would do, bottom line same thing happened at the little hospital. They figured I was either drinking or on drugs until all tests came back negative. No surprise there, I do not drink or do drugs but I was wearing leathers and we were on our way back from Sturgis. Talking about profiling at its finest. It was determined I had a reaction to gnats bites.

I took my son to the specialists because he had a second degree chemical burn. This has been discussed in previous posts. He saw the top specialists in my state at the Burn Trauma Center and the Dermatology Center. So, people that are much more experienced in these situations then Urgent Care.

I also, have more experience with allergies then the majority of the population. I know the symptoms to look out for and how to patch test/treat.

My sympathies on your experience. It's never fun dealing with allergies, and I do understand how that feels when a doctor does not listen to you, that is why I only send my son to see Specialists that know what they are doing. I know where to go, because honestly, I credential them.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

I appreciate all the advise on how to make soap and what the ingredients I have talked about would do in a soap recipe - beyond that I really don't want any other advice.

Got it. Thanks!

In that case, as much as I would like to help, I'll leave it to others to help you with designing your soap recipe. Since @cmzaha, has similar allergies to your son's, she is probably the best person to advise you.

BEST WISHES AND GOOD LUCK!