Would like a recipe for a simple Castile-like soap that cures fast

[shunt2011]

Hi Alex,
I hear you! Except for the animal fats, you just described ME when I first started soaping! I wanted a 100% olive oil soap so much, but, once made, I couldn't stand the icky slime it produced when lathering up. Not only did I have to wait (a week?) to unmold, but 3 months before i could use it! UGH. I didn't have the advantage you have of getting excellent advice from all the lovely and generous people in this group.

But I digress. (1) I recently discovered a trick to get "No Slime Quick Cure" Castile that's hard enough to ship in two weeks (altho longer cure is better), that has the smooth texture of triple-milled French soaps. (2) Is something I developed for a soaping buddy by request during my early days of making transparent soaps. It's basically a rebatch with glycerin & water. Contact me off list if interested.

EMAIL: [email protected]

The OP hasn't been here in almost a year. His post is from June 2016. Not likely to get a response.

 

[DeeAnna]

"... recently discovered a trick to get "No Slime Quick Cure" Castile ... Contact me off list if interested...."

If you don't want to share your technique with all and sundry, that's absolutely your choice, but please then have the courtesy to handle this matter privately.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

The OP hasn't been here in almost a year. His post is from June 2016. Not likely to get a response.

OH NO! Too funny! Oops!

Thanks for the head's up, Shunt.

If you don't want to share your technique with all and sundry, that's absolutely your choice, but please then have the courtesy to handle this matter privately.

Yes, of course! I don't know why I didn't think of that!

I totally apologize for just leaving it like that, DeeAnna, but I had to run. It gets crazy here sometimes. I hope you know by now that I'm happy to share whenever I feel I have something to contribute, but I have not shared this technique with anyone to date and I needed a "guinea person" to give it a go. You know how it is... something that works perfectly fine for one of us, doesn't always go smoothly when you share it with someone. Alex seemed to be of similar mindset and I felt he would be someone I could communicate well with and therefore a good candidate to give it a go. Also, I'm techno-challenged and I was hoping he would be willing to take pics or do a video of it.

Once again, I sincerely apologize, to everyone. My bad.

 

[Kelley]

Hard soap doesn't mean cured soap. Also, CO is not a substitute for palm. Lard and tallow are replacement/subs. The more CO you have the more quickly the soap dissolves. If you're just looking for hard soap then I suppose you're good. Not necessarily a quality soap. Also a very cleansing soap. There is much more going on in soap than hardness with a good cure. 4-6 weeks is a must for me. Regardless of how little liquid used. 50% or more OO and it gets a longer cure. It's all about quality for me and my customers. My soaps are hard when I unmold them but not cured.

I'm interested in learning about the coconut oil dissolving more quickly. I won't use palm but I have recently started using lard. I love how creamy they are with lard.
You are right. The longer the cure, the better. I can't wait the full 4 weeks to try a new soap. I have been known to use it myself after a week. I wouldn't sell it until 4 weeks though. I don't understand what happens during cure other than water loss but I do know that it is doing a disservice to customers to sell them too soon.

 

[DeeAnna]

"...I'm interested in learning about the coconut oil dissolving more quickly. ..."

What is it that you're wanting to know?

It's simply a fact that soap made with shorter fatty acids is generally more soluble in water. Fats that have a lot of these short fatty acids include coconut oil, palm kernel oil, and babassu oil. So a soap made from these fats will dissolve faster than a soap made with fats that have longer fatty acids. These fats include lard, tallow, and palm.

For a soap that is mild to the skin, long lasting, and has a nice lather, you want to strike a balance by using a blend of fats that create soap that dissolves easily and creates fluffy fast lather vs soap that lasts longer and creates a creamy lather.

 

[cmzaha]

I'm interested in learning about the coconut oil dissolving more quickly. I won't use palm but I have recently started using lard. I love how creamy they are with lard.
You are right. The longer the cure, the better. I can't wait the full 4 weeks to try a new soap. I have been known to use it myself after a week. I wouldn't sell it until 4 weeks though. I don't understand what happens during cure other than water loss but I do know that it is doing a disservice to customers to sell them too soon.

Coconut oil soap is very soluble which is why it will lather in salt water. Off the topic, but you mention not using palm, which by the way, the US (if you are in the US) is one the the least users of palm. The tiny bit soapmakers use will not make a difference. What I was going to mention is, if you ever use stearic acid be careful most readily available stearic is palm stearic and it is really necessary for cream soap and shave soaps

 

[Margo]

I don't make fake 'Castile' soap with other oils. The original Castile soap is made with 100% olive oil. Period. It takes almost a year to cure CP castile soap. There are no shortcuts. The end!
Here are photos of my HP Castile soaps made with 100% Olive Oil

 

[DeeAnna]

"...The original Castile soap is made with..."

The "original Castile soap" would have also been made with vegetable-ash lye and a boiled soapmaking method. And only the Castile region of Spain.

"...Here are photos of my HP Castile soaps..."

No, those are photos of your 100% olive oil soap.

Since you're going to insist on strict, historically correct accuracy from the rest of us, then have the honor to apply your own rules to yourself as well. Your soap, by your rules, does not qualify to be "Castile soap" any more than anyone else's soap does.

***

That said, the name "castile" has been long used to describe a high quality soap typically made with vegetable fats (and even some made with tallow and veg fats.) This has been the widely-used commercial and colloquial meaning of "castile" in the US, Europe, and the UK for the past century or more. This meaning is furthermore supported by case law, at least here in the US.* It's perfectly valid for soapers to use "castile" as the name for a 100% olive oil soap and for anyone, soaper or otherwise, to use it as the name for a 100% veg oil soap.

* James S. Kirk & Co. v. Federal Trade Commission, 59 F.2d 179 (7th Cir. 1932), http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F2/59/179/1471747/

 

[shunt2011]

I don't make fake 'Castile' soap with other oils. The original Castile soap is made with 100% olive oil. Period. It takes almost a year to cure CP castile soap. There are no shortcuts. The end!
Here are photos of my HP Castile soaps made with 100% Olive Oil

Goes the same with what you claimed recently in a post as you making Aleppo soap.
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=42556&page=545

We can'nt make true Aleppo soap. Though you claimed to. Nobody jumped in and attacked you on your statement. Please think before posting. Your comments more times than not are not very nice and are rather arrogant.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

The "original Castile soap" would have also been made with vegetable-ash lye and a boiled soapmaking method. And only the Castile region of Spain. ... No, those are photos of your 100% olive oil soap. ...

That said, the name "castile" has been long used to describe a high quality soap typically made with vegetable fats (and even some made with tallow and veg fats.) This has been the widely-used commercial and colloquial meaning of "castile" in the US, Europe, and the UK for the past century or more. This meaning is furthermore supported by case law, at least here in the US.* It's perfectly valid for soapers to use "castile" as the name for a 100% olive oil soap and for anyone, soaper or otherwise, to use it as the name for a 100% veg oil soap.

* James S. Kirk & Co. v. Federal Trade Commission, 59 F.2d 179 (7th Cir. 1932), http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F2/59/179/1471747/

DITTO what DeeAnna said.

Thank you for posting that. I've long wanted to mention that, technically, "castile" means a soap made with all vegetable oils, i.e., containing no tallow. But, in Margo's defense, she meant no harm and was only passionately parroting what she learned elsewhere. KWIM? I hope we can agree, that many soapers become "victims" of soaping forums and groups where "castile" means 100% olive oil soaps. It's just one of those pieces of mis-information that gets passed down the line -- on and on and on -- until it becomes "cast-in-stone" -- or, as I call it, "soapstone"! Haha. ... Hence, the necessity of inventing the soap-making-world jargon, "bastile" (bastard + castile), to mean olive oil + other vegie oils.

BTW, maybe it's just me, but that link didn't work for me. With the name James S. Kirk & CO, I'm guessing that refers to "Kirk's Castile" soap -- which, if I remember correctly, is all coconut oil. ??? Please correct me if that's wrong. Obviously, he won his case.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Is it not also what other people (ie those who don't soap but buy soap) tend to think, too? When you say "champagne", do you mean a wine produced only in the Champagne region of France, or just a keyword for a sparkling white? Most people now say "Prosecco" or sparkling white for anything not actually "champagne" (even though Prosecco is also region specific).

But when people think of Castile, what are they expecting? Many people who are new and learn more about what soaps are made of are often quite amazed to learn that Dr Bonners Castile is not just Olive oil. And that he is also not actually a doctor!

 

[SaltedFig]

Is it not also what other people (ie those who don't soap but buy soap) tend to think, too? When you say "champagne", do you mean a wine produced only in the Champagne region of France, or just a keyword for a sparkling white? Most people now say "Prosecco" or sparkling white for anything not actually "champagne" (even though Prosecco is also region specific).

But when people think of Castile, what are they expecting? Many people who are new and learn more about what soaps are made of are often quite amazed to learn that Dr Bonners Castile is not just Olive oil. And that he is also not actually a doctor!

The French winemakers from Champagne vigorously defend their regional name, and have won a significant number of court cases across the world in the last decade or so. I know here in Australia our winemakers changed the names of their product to avoid facing legal action.

The soap makers from Marseille and Castile don't seem to have the same geographical protection, although the French will soon (if this is anything to go by, they are well on the way to getting protection in the next few years: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ance-as-marseilles-finest-soapmakers-in-bitt/).

Castile? Not seeing any geographical protection, which is sad in a way, but the reality of advertising and common usage of of words (here in Australia, for years people would call a ball point pen a Bic, even if it wasn't, just because the company name was so closely associated with the pen type that the name became the common usage for the pen, much to the annoyance of other manufacturers at the time!).

 

[IrishLass]

BTW, maybe it's just me, but that link didn't work for me. With the name James S. Kirk & CO, I'm guessing that refers to "Kirk's Castile" soap -- which, if I remember correctly, is all coconut oil. ??? Please correct me if that's wrong. Obviously, he won his case.

For what its worth, the link comes up fine for me.


IrishLass

 

[Kelley]

I haven't made a cream soap or shave soap yet. I have read about stearic making bars harder but not anything else. There is just so much to learn!
I'm in the UK btw. Maybe I should use Palm, if it's going to make a better soap. I'm an orangutan fan and so I avoid it but only because I have had some wonderful results without it. I guess I can buy the sustainable kind...
Thank you for your help.

 

[shunt2011]

I haven't made a cream soap or shave soap yet. I have read about stearic making bars harder but not anything else. There is just so much to learn!
I'm in the UK btw. Maybe I should use Palm, if it's going to make a better soap. I'm an orangutan fan and so I avoid it but only because I have had some wonderful results without it. I guess I can buy the sustainable kind...
Thank you for your help.

If your not opposed, lard makes an awesome soap. Better than palm.

 

[shunt2011]

DITTO what DeeAnna said.

Thank you for posting that. I've long wanted to mention that, technically, "castile" means a soap made with all vegetable oils, i.e., containing no tallow. But, in Margo's defense, she meant no harm and was only passionately parroting what she learned elsewhere. KWIM? I hope we can agree, that many soapers become "victims" of soaping forums and groups where "castile" means 100% olive oil soaps. It's just one of those pieces of mis-information that gets passed down the line -- on and on and on -- until it becomes "cast-in-stone" -- or, as I call it, "soapstone"! Haha. ... Hence, the necessity of inventing the soap-making-world jargon, "bastile" (bastard + castile), to mean olive oil + other vegie oils.

BTW, maybe it's just me, but that link didn't work for me. With the name James S. Kirk & CO, I'm guessing that refers to "Kirk's Castile" soap -- which, if I remember correctly, is all coconut oil. ??? Please correct me if that's wrong. Obviously, he won his case.

Unfortunately, she makes negative comments like this quite often and offers nothing much as far as help or assistance to others and it's not nice.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

For what its worth, the link comes up fine for me.

Thanks, Irish. I just tried it again and it worked!

 

[Sapolandia]

Substitute for palm oil?

Palm oil is very hard to find where I am - and I remember having read that it has great soap making qualities - so I was wondering what I could substitue it with? I have a lot of Shea butter and quite a lot of Argan oil - the cheapest oils here are olive oil and sunflower oil..

Best wishes!

 

[toxikon]

Palm oil is very hard to find where I am - and I remember having read that it has great soap making qualities - so I was wondering what I could substitue it with? I have a lot of Shea butter and quite a lot of Argan oil - the cheapest oils here are olive oil and sunflower oil..

Best wishes!

Welcome to the forum! If you'd like your question to be seen by more people, I'd definitely recommend starting your own thread in the Beginner forum.

 

[dixiedragon]

Palm oil is very hard to find where I am - and I remember having read that it has great soap making qualities - so I was wondering what I could substitue it with? I have a lot of Shea butter and quite a lot of Argan oil - the cheapest oils here are olive oil and sunflower oil..

Best wishes!

Yes, if you start your own thread, people will respond to your question (since it's the first post) and you'll get more info.

The most direct replacement for palm is lard or tallow.

If you want to use shea, I make a recipe that I like that is 50% shea and has a 2% superfat. Shea has a lot of unsaponifiables (things that don't become soap). These make for a nice, gentle soap but can also negatively effect lather, and the lower superfat will help with that.

Castor 5
Coconut 20
Shea butter 50
Sunflower 25
2% superfat.

I do think this has a longer cure time than a lard soap, though. Next I make this I will probably replace some of the sunflower with olive and/or rice bran.