Would like a recipe for a simple Castile-like soap that cures fast

[DeeAnna]

To make a soapmaker's classic castile that lathers nicely, lasts a long time, and only requires a 4-6 week cure --> use 100% olive oil, whatever lye solution concentration you prefer, the usual 5% superfat (lye discount), and a blend of 95% NaOH and 5% KOH (potassium hydroxide).

 

[alexanderte]

Ha! That explains it! That sounds like me and my hyper-focus type of ADHD. I am flighty, flaky and forgetful. However, when something grabs my attention, it grabs my attention and I am consumed/lost in it for hours at a time. I like archiving and filing and all of those tedious things. Analyzing a process and making improvements to it so that it's more efficient. "Finding a needle in a haystack." All of these are my ideas of fun.

I can totally relate to the hyper-focusing. The past couple of weeks have been very intense when it comes to soap making. Now that I’ve gotten my equipment, learnt some basics about the process, and done three batches then I feel like I can relax a bit. I can’t wait to try my own soap, but I have to say that I really enjoy the process. Part of the process is keeping a very detailed log of everything I do. The structure of the log is always evolving.

Another aspect I enjoy a lot is designing the packaging. If I plan to sell my soaps at some point then I guess that’s just as important, if not more (from a number-of-soaps-sold perspective), than the actual soap making.

To make a soapmaker's classic castile that lathers nicely, lasts a long time, and only requires a 4-6 week cure --> use 100% olive oil, whatever lye solution concentration you prefer, the usual 5% superfat (lye discount), and a blend of 95% NaOH and 5% KOH (potassium hydroxide).

So this blend of NaOH and KOH is what makes it cure faster?

 

[DeeAnna]

The KOH makes the soap more soluble in water. Thsi means the usual stringy oleic soap gel doesn't form as easily with a KOH-NaOH castile as it does with a castile made with NaOH only. I won't debate the "cure faster" issue -- all I will say is if you want to make a true castile (100% olive oil) and would like it to last a long enough time, make lots of nice lather, and be mild to the skin after a more typical 4-6 week cure, then try using the mixed lyes.

 

[Arimara]

The KOH makes the soap more soluble in water. Thsi means the usual stringy oleic soap gel doesn't form as easily with a KOH-NaOH castile as it does with a castile made with NaOH only. I won't debate the "cure faster" issue -- all I will say is if you want to make a true castile (100% olive oil) and would like it to last a long enough time, make lots of nice lather, and be mild to the skin after a more typical 4-6 week cure, then try using the mixed lyes.

That said soap would still benefit froma 3 month cure at least. I used a slice of one of the olive oil castiles I made like this and the middle is turning to mush. OP may benefit from making a 2lb batch of this so that some of the soaps will have the chance to cure longer and not be used up in about two or three weeks or sooner since he's a guy.

 

[DeeAnna]

I haven't noticed any hint of mush with the batch I made -- the bar I'm using daily in the shower is staying nicely hard while still lathering well and having a decently long life. But, as always, everyone's mileage varies.

 

[Arimara]

True. To be fair, this one is partially gelled but I'm scratching my head because none of the gelled soaps I had did this. I'll just use another tester batch to be sure.

Note- BB's Clementine Cupcake is a little too annoying for me to soap with. I thought it would be nice for a child friendly soap.

 

[jakethemouse]

Hello all,

I'm new here. I believe all cp soap should go through the 4-6 weeks or until you bar stops losing water weight however have read there a ways to speed up the curing time. First and most obvious are the oils you use and water discounting which has already been mentioned.

Diy natural had a blogpost about other methods such as using a dehumidifier, fans, zeolites, oven and heaters to reduce the humidity and moisture in the curing area.

The waiting is the hardest part for me too. Sorry about the long post

 

[kumudini]

^^Don't know if I understood you correctly but if despite what all you read you still believe that all NaOH soap needs minimum 4-6 weeks cure, that's great because that IS the truth. You cannot really hasten cure.

welcome to the forum and the addiction

To make a soapmaker's classic castile that lathers nicely, lasts a long time, and only requires a 4-6 week cure --> use 100% olive oil, whatever lye solution concentration you prefer, the usual 5% superfat (lye discount), and a blend of 95% NaOH and 5% KOH (potassium hydroxide).

you make it look so simple DeeAnna, its like a curse has been lifted off of the castile and it could regain its queen status in the soap world again. I was wary of trying a regular castile after reading so many negative sentiments about it, so I tried the super lye castile but it felt like a block of plastic and didn't make any lather for me after a full year. So I never made any after that. Now I'm going to try the dual lye recipe.

 

[redhead1226]

Jake - I have been reading a lot of FB posts lately from newbies wanting to "speed up" curing time by using dehydrators like you say. First - Whats the rush? Second - I think there are magical things that happen to soap over time. The soap has basically gone through saponification pretty quickly. However I have used soap that I have made 8-10 months later and they are far better than they were at 4-6 weeks. In fact a soap I made that I didn't even like, I now love! I don't think you get the same results by putting a fan on it IMO. SMH

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Hello all,

I'm new here. I believe all cp soap should go through the 4-6 weeks or until you bar stops losing water weight however have read there a ways to speed up the curing time. First and most obvious are the oils you use and water discounting which has already been mentioned.

Diy natural had a blogpost about other methods such as using a dehumidifier, fans, zeolites, oven and heaters to reduce the humidity and moisture in the curing area.

The waiting is the hardest part for me too. Sorry about the long post

Castiles are a prime example of why moisture loss does not equal cure. After some months a bar will not lose much more moisture, and yet there is a very noticeable difference between a 3 month old Castile and a 12 month old Castile. It's not down to moisture loss, so it must be something else.

Even in a more balanced bar, speeding up moisture loss will.........speed up moisture loss. But moisture loss clearly cannot be all that happens in curing, so speeding up moisture loss is not speeding up curing.

 

[DeeAnna]

I agree with The Gent -- moisture loss is NOT the same as curing. There are structural changes in the soap that happen in the soap over time that are not necessarily related just to moisture loss. We've had this discussion before and will again I'm sure, but I doubt my opinion will change because it's based on my experience, not on what is being passed around by bloggers on the internet. There are some things for which time and patience are the solutions, and curing soap is one of them.

This is so easy to check, so there's no excuse for not doing the research yourself. Test the lather of a soap after it's made at 2, 4, 6, and 8 weeks and then for every month for at least a year. Look at ease of lathering, amount of lather, and quality of lather. Evaluate the soap bar for slickness, hardness, etc.

An impatient soaper can get around the cure waiting period by making soap regularly so you get a regular soap-making fix and the soap "pipeline" is filled with soap of varying ages so there's always good soap to use.

***

I want to emphasize that adding a bit of KOH to a high oleic soap recipe does not change the essential nature of the soap. The soap and its lather still have a slick feel and the lather is more dense compared with a coconut oil soap or another freely lathering soap. What the KOH does do is reduce the amount of concentrated oleic gel that forms when the soap meets water -- the added KOH reduces or eliminates the slime/snot that makes an all-NaOH castile so unappealing to many. The lather builds quicker and easier, and you'll see more light, fluffy bubbles rather than mostly a low, dense lather. A 5% KOH high-oleic soap is definitely more pleasant to use at 4-6 weeks of cure than the same soap made with all NaOH.

Is this soap at its best after only 4-6 weeks compared to when it's multiple years old? I don't know. Maybe castile connoisseurs will take up the challenge. What I can say is using 5% KOH makes a high oleic soap a type of soap I might make more of, compared to the all NaOH version.

 

[earlene]

I want to emphasize that adding a bit of KOH to a high oleic soap recipe does not change the essential nature of the soap. The soap and its lather still have a slick feel and the lather is more dense compared with a coconut oil soap or another freely lathering soap. What the KOH does do is reduce the amount of concentrated oleic gel that forms when the soap meets water -- the added KOH reduces or eliminates the slime/snot that makes an all-NaOH castile so unappealing to many. The lather builds quicker and easier, and you'll see more light, fluffy bubbles rather than mostly a low, dense lather. A 5% KOH high-oleic soap is definitely more pleasant to use at 4-6 weeks of cure than the same soap made with all NaOH.

Is this soap at its best after only 4-6 weeks compared to when it's multiple years old? I don't know. Maybe castile connoisseurs will take up the challenge. What I can say is using 5% KOH makes a high oleic soap a type of soap I might make more of, compared to the all NaOH version.

The bold above is mine, not DeeAnna's, but it is what I wish to address here.

First, I wish to thank DeeAnna for the Dual Lye tutorial and mention that I used it to create two batches of dual lye Castile soap this past June (2016). One was with pomace OO and one was with regular OO. Both were with [40% Lye Concentration]. So the water loss was greatly reduced right off the bat. I will be making this soap again with more water sometime in the future, but so far that's all I have to report on regarding a dual lye Castile as it compares to a single lye Castile.

You can read my in-depth comparison of the two different types of Castiles here. My single lye Castile (NaOH) was 15 months old compared to the 6 months-young dual lye Castile when I tested them. I did try the young one when it was much younger, but I don't think I posted about that and did not find it any more un-ready than it is right now.

In short, NO, it is not at it's best at 4-6 weeks, because it is not at it's best at 6 months. Not in my current experience. My 15 month Castile (Single Lye and full water) has no snot-slime ropes, while my 6-month dual lye (95% NaOH/5% KOH at 40% Lye) Castile does.

Would it be different if I had made the dual lye Castile with full water? I don't know, as I did not do that.

 

[Seawolfe]

It helps to think of it like beer or wine making. If you have ever had beer or wine served too early, it can range from nasty to semi-drinkable (like the fraternity kids would probably drink it). Leave it be for a while and it will be fabulous. Soap is the same way - DON'T try to rush it. STOP RUSHING THE CURE!! :headbanging:

If you want soap you can use immediately, make liquid soap. Or bath bombs or lotion or lotion bars or bubble bars with SLSA to have something to use.

In the meantime make a batch of soap per week, and yes test the ends to see how it gets better over time.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

One good way to remove the need for a quick cure is to make a different type of soap a week on rotation, so after the first 4 weeks of waiting, you only have to wait a week for a new soap! If you can't use that much up reasonably quickly, make it every 2 or 4 weeks or whathaveyou - regardless of how often it is, the goal would be to have a batch being cured when you make a new batch so you get some sort of delayed-but-instant gratification

 

[Gerry]

Seems there are a few IT/system technology people here. I'm paid big money mainly to tell large corporations and government that their software projects failed because of their quest for big-bang instant gratification. Transformations must be incremental and strategic. What you do today might only impact the bottom line 2, 5, or even 10 years out.

 

[Kelley]

I stay away from palm too. I think coconut oil can be used in higher quantities instead of palm but it's more expensive.
Crazy as it sounds a 50/50 olive/coconut recipe produces a lovely soap. Or a 40/25/20/15 olive/coconut/Shea/cocoa butter.
As for cure time I mostly do CPOP. The result is the smooth finish of a CP soap with a harder bar more quickly.
Also if you are an experienced soaper you can do a 1.5/1 water to lye ratio.

 

[shunt2011]

CPOP does not shorten the cure time, it causes that saponification to happen more quickly. Cure is time for water/liquid evaporation and other chemisty things happening. Soap requires 4-6 weeks to cure period. Some longer.

 

[Kelley]

Yes, I know but I get a much better results with CPOP. Colours are brighter. Never had soda ash from it. The best for me is never having to wait more than a day to unmold.
Also, if using a huge water discount or/and high amount of coconut oil I don't need to leave any more than 1 week for a hard bar.

 

[shunt2011]

Yes, I know but I get a much better results with CPOP. Colours are brighter. Never had soda ash from it. The best for me is never having to wait more than a day to unmold.

Also, if using a huge water discount or/and high amount of coconut oil I don't need to leave any more than 1 week for a hard bar.

Hard soap doesn't mean cured soap. Also, CO is not a substitute for palm. Lard and tallow are replacement/subs. The more CO you have the more quickly the soap dissolves. If you're just looking for hard soap then I suppose you're good. Not necessarily a quality soap. Also a very cleansing soap. There is much more going on in soap than hardness with a good cure. 4-6 weeks is a must for me. Regardless of how little liquid used. 50% or more OO and it gets a longer cure. It's all about quality for me and my customers. My soaps are hard when I unmold them but not cured.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Title says it all. I’m into very simple things, and I would like the simplest soap that doesn’t need more than 4–6 weeks of curing. Do anyone have a recipe to share? ... No animal oils, no colors, no fragrances – maybe with the exception of a dash of EO. ... I only do CP. Would be helpful with lye concentration, and anything related to temperature that I should be aware of. What are my options?

Hi Alex,
I hear you! Except for the animal fats, you just described ME when I first started soaping! I wanted a 100% olive oil soap so much, but, once made, I couldn't stand the icky slime it produced when lathering up. Not only did I have to wait (a week?) to unmold, but 3 months before i could use it! UGH. I didn't have the advantage you have of getting excellent advice from all the lovely and generous people in this group.

But I digress. (1) I recently discovered a trick to get "No Slime Quick Cure" Castile that's hard enough to ship in two weeks (altho longer cure is better), that has the smooth texture of triple-milled French soaps. (2) Is something I developed for a soaping buddy by request during my early days of making transparent soaps. It's basically a rebatch with glycerin & water. Contact me off list if interested.

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