Why oh WHY???

[kumudini]

My cuisinart doesn't suck any air in. I do sometimes manage to not clear the bell, as a result mix in plenty of air bubbles, but none of them show up in my final bar for some reason, may be few stearic spots here and there or bigger air bubbles when I manage to end up with thick pudding batter but none of the tiny ones. What those specks look like to me is the specks I got from the Dead Sea salt (6-7% of oils) in my salt bar. That salt is quite abrasive too, no matter their size. Dunno what to with the 5 pounds I have . I'm thinking that it might be the salt in your recipe as well. Why it's concentrated in one area in one of your soaps, I can't think of a reason.

 

[SoapyGoats]

Have you tried switching stick blenders? Sometimes it isn't air that's trapped under the bell, but air that gets sucked down the shaft of the blender. My $10 back up blender doesn't do this, but my more expensive Cuisinart does.

No, I haven't. Wow, didn't know sb's could do that too.

Fwiw I mix my clays into a slurry with the water allotment before adding. And that first pic of the red soap is just partial gel. For any soap that doesn't use salt or need a thick trace, try pouring at a thin or thinner trace - that won't hold air bubbles as easy.

For cutting salt bars, you need to cut as soon as is physically possible, which can be within 4-8 hours.

Will try mixing clay into earlier I suspected that....I like the look of the un-gelled part. I'll try pouring at a lighter trace as well.

I'm thinking that it might be the salt in your recipe as well. Why it's concentrated in one area in one of your soaps, I can't think of a reason.

Okay. Definitely am going to try some without the salt!

 

[Seawolfe]

To my tiny mind, it's easier to encourage gel than to prevent it, largely because I have no room in my freezer, and I don't like cutting un gelled soap. But other people (I'm looking at you Carolyn!) are wizards at not gelling. Find out what works for you.

 

[gigisiguenza]

I've only had 3 batches gel on me, I didn't want gel on two but I forgot to refrigerate so it happened. And all I do is sit the mold on a metal cookie sheet with parchment paper under the mold, then slide the whole thing in the fridge. I leave it there for anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour then take it our and let it sit and do its thing. I don't really like the look or texture of the gelled soaps, but I haven't been specifically designing for it, so who knows, I might like it down the road.

 

[SoapyGoats]

Tried your guys tips today:

Made one batch with just salt
Made one batch with just clay
Made one batch with neither

Used the same sb for all. So we'll see how they turn out!

 

[SoapyGoats]

It's fixed!!! IT'S FIXED!!!!
Yes, it was the salt Here are my latest soaps The lighter soap is FO frosted berries - white clay no salt.
The pink-ish soap is FO Pumpkin Patch no clay or salt.http://www.soapmakingforum.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/

 

[penelopejane]

Wow that was worth the effort. What very beautiful soap! Did you get the orange colour infusing the oil with pumpkin?

I guess save the salt for a special salt soap where the texture is a given!

 

[SoapyGoats]

Wow that was worth the effort. What very beautiful soap! Did you get the orange colour infusing the oil with pumpkin?

I guess save the salt for a special salt soap where the texture is a given!

Thanks! Nope, the FO did that And yes, that salt isn't going into most of my soaps now.

 

[Sphynxbabies]

Hi, sorry, have been away. No I'm not suggesting too much lye, just undissolved lye and that may not be visible to you when adding it to your batch, they are very minute particles that for whatever reason just don't dissolve. Testing your soap will tell you if it is lye. I own soap stores, 3 of them and have taught soap making classes for 25 yrs. I do not bring in any product from outside, all soap is made on premises. I also jury a National Artisans Festival the Soap/Toiletries Catagory where I test each entry's soap to see if it is caustic. About 40% consistently test positive to undissolved lye. I see a lot of complaining about the Government stepping in with regulations for soap makers but without some sort of protocol, these caustic soaps would all make it to market and could potentially harm the public. Test your soaps ladies....zap testing is not acceptable.

 

[DeeAnna]

You say to test, but you don't provide your method of testing nor do you define your standards for what is acceptable. Testing after the fact is not going to help when you're making soap, so I assume you follow a particular protocol to ensure safety, but you don't explain any details about that either. Would you please explain further or provide a source that offers more specific information?

 

[JayJay]

Hi, sorry, have been away. No I'm not suggesting too much lye, just undissolved lye and that may not be visible to you when adding it to your batch, they are very minute particles that for whatever reason just don't dissolve. Testing your soap will tell you if it is lye. I own soap stores, 3 of them and have taught soap making classes for 25 yrs. I do not bring in any product from outside, all soap is made on premises. I also jury a National Artisans Festival the Soap/Toiletries Catagory where I test each entry's soap to see if it is caustic. About 40% consistently test positive to undissolved lye. I see a lot of complaining about the Government stepping in with regulations for soap makers but without some sort of protocol, these caustic soaps would all make it to market and could potentially harm the public. Test your soaps ladies....zap testing is not acceptable.

I also would like to know how to test for undissolved lye... And how to know when it's REALLY dissolved when making the solution other than looking at the solution for visible particles.

In this particular case it was revealed that the spots were not undisolved lye. But for conversation's sake, I would like to know about your experience with this. Is his what undissolved lye looks like? Wouldn't this be a tremendous amount of unsdisolved lye? I would imagine a lye spot here and there, but nothing like this.

 

[Sphynxbabies]

Well, it's not my standards you have to be concerned about it is the Governments and if you are questioning ph levels then I would have to ask for which part of the body as they are all different. And testing after the fact is the only way to insure the results as hand crafted soap is just that, hand crafted, and human error is a factor. Low batts or just sub standard scales, Lye that has been affected by moisture, incorrect sap values, miscalculations, undissolved lye (there is no absolute way to know visually if all the lye is properly dissolved) etc. No tests that we have access to are 100% conclusive but "Phenolphthalein" liquid( not the strips) will give you a reliable indicator if lye is present. Strips are of no use as you have to use them on a soap "dilution" so results are from a weakened and diluted base. You need to have a science based test. Licking your soap is not and I would love to know why it is accepted as an accurate assessment. If there is enough caustic chemical residing in your soap so that it zaps your tongue, what is the PH level ? And what is the PH level that can go undetected by zap testing and who is to say one persons tongue is not more tolerant than someone else's? Soaps I have tested that have been determined caustic with Phenolphthalein ...tested neutral to zap. We have a responsibility to make sure our soaps are not harmful which means using the means available to us at whatever the cost or inconvenience incurred. Otherwise we have no business offering our soaps to anyone.

 

[commoncenz]

This ought to be good ...

 

[Sphynxbabies]

There's just no way Jay Jay to know for sure. Some batches will just turn out that way no matter how your lye/water looks. The specs can be soooo tiny you would never suspect it to be lye. Best to test always.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

I turn your question around - at a given pH, or a given Pheno reading, is there always excess lye present? As in, what does the pH tell us? If you say that the pH tells us if a soap is safe or not, then which pH is safe and which isn't? Is there a set point where a soap goes from being safe to unsafe?

These soaps that were caustic with pheno but not zap - how were they to use? How were they tested with Pheno?

 

[Sphynxbabies]

Hi,
If you use Phenol to test you have a range of colour indicators that will tell you if lye is present. If the test bar once tested has no colour present at all then the soap will comply for human use. The colour range is from clear (safe) to fuschia (caustic) . The only acceptable result is 100% clear. There are many sites available that can explain the interaction between Phenol and sodium hydroxide if you google it. In a perfectly 'safe' bar there will be only a completely 'clear' reading, not clear with a pink rim, pale pink, etc. If a batch tests slightly positive during the initial batch test, then I leave it for another week and keep testing till it is completely clear. If the batch does not ever show 100% 'clear' it is thrown out no matter how faint the 'pink' indicator shows. Phenol is your best and highest indicator to determine whether you soap has unsafe levels of Lye. Ph levels are a different level of testing and again there are lots of websites that will go thru the ph levels for the different parts of the body including shampoo's etc. You can scale your product line by way of recipe for the different levels for different areas of the body. Ph level of 7 is considered neutral equal acid/alkaline and about 5.5 is on average for our skin. It varies from body part to body part. Simplified, Ph levels go from 1 - 14 anything under 7 is acid anything over is alkaline which is why 7 is considered neutral. I hate when these get really long so I'll tell you this. I had a soapmaker come into my store who brought in a sample of her soap that was five years old that she wanted me to look at. I cut a bar and it literally shattered. She said her daughters wouldn't use it anymore. I tested her 5 yr old bars and they turned pink. I told her not to use them. Her husband said "well , I'm going to keep using them I like the way they make my skin tingle". So, they were burning his skin, and that is the liability of selling soap that has not been tested or that tests positive in any shade of pink. Again, just because it doesn't zap you, does not mean that everyone who buys your soap has the same tolerances. Many people have skin conditions or are overtly sensitive. Let's not forget Lye is a chemical. I think it would be very risky to stand before a judge and offer the "zap test" as your method of quality control.

 

[skayc1]

the newer soaps look great!

 

[notapantsday]

Not disagreeing with anything that's been said here, just some points to avoid confusion:

1. Phenolphtalein doesn't test specifically for NaOH. It's a pH indicator so it will show a reaction with everything that increases the pH value.

2. The point where phenolphtalein turns from pink to clear is at a pH of about 8.2, which is still not neutral. It may be a good rule of thumb to say that at this point, soap is safe to use. But it has nothing to do with the soap being neutral or no more NaOH being present (which is both incorrect).

3. Soap itself is basic, even if (in theory) it has absolutely no NaOH left in it. Just a very simple explanation: Whenever a base and an acid come together, they create a salt. If they both have about the same strength, they create a pH-neutral salt. For example, hydrochloric acid (HCl) is a very strong acid and sodium hydroxide (NaOH) is a very strong base. If you put them together in the right amounts, they make regular table salt which is pH-neutral. In our case we have fatty acids, which are very weak acids and on the other hand sodium hydroxide, which is a very strong base. This imbalance results in a salt that is not neutral but basic, even if (again, theoretically) there is no more NaOH left.

 

[JayJay]

There's just no way Jay Jay to know for sure. Some batches will just turn out that way no matter how your lye/water looks. The specs can be soooo tiny you would never suspect it to be lye. Best to test always.

When you test with pheno, do you squirt it directly onto the soap? Or do you make a solution with the soap first? I've seen videos where people squirt it directly onto the soap but I have also read that a solution should be made with the soap first so that the soap is present only in a specific concentration.

I zap test. Which, I must admit, scares me sometimes. I think, "what if this soap is going to burn a hole in my tongue! " But it never does. I got zapped only once or twice and it wasn't so bad. Still I am curious about your method.

 

[Sphynxbabies]

To take a test with Phenol I cut into the batch and sacrifice 3 bars from different areas. Then one drop of Phenol onto the open cut of the bars with the soap dry with no dilution. Any pink and it is a no go for another week. It is a very simple, quite reliable test and you can feel quite safe that your soap is not going to burn anyone once all tests clear. To test actual Ph levels then use the test strips (plastic seem to be the most accurate) and reference the colour charts to find the corresponding Ph level that matches the test strip colour. For this test you must wet the soap to have something to dip the test strip into, so dilution is a must even though it can weaken the results.

Not disagreeing with anything that's been said here, just some points to avoid confusion:

Agreed, so what do you suggest for testing?