Which extras. Sodiums, sugars, acids

[Vickyn]

Hey all. I've been doing some research on additives for lather, hardness and longevity. I have to say I'm a bit confused. Most things I've found, only talk about 1 particular additive and what they do, rather than the combo of items to use.
So my question is, what do people use and any exceptions or places they shouldn't be used?

• Sodium Lactate
• Citric Acid
• Stearic Acid
• Cetyl alcohol
• Salt
• Sugar
• Any others I've missed.....

 

[shunt2011]

Sugar can be used to help with lather. Salt and Sodium Lactate will help with hardness upon un-molding. Stearic Acid in small amounts will help with hardness as well. Never heard of using Cetyl Alcohol so can't help there. Citric Acid, Tetrasodium EDTA are chelators and help with soap scum from hard water.

I use SL in all my soaps and Tetrasodium EDTA for soap scum when I remember.

Some also use vinegar for hardness.

 

[Vickyn]

I'm currently using SL and CA, but I was curious what combinations people use as I haven't found a 'common' formula or any info sites that talk about combinations. Only single additive pages with how to use them and what they do individually.
I haven't seen Tetrasodium EDTA before, so I'll definitely check that out. Do you think it's better than citric acid @shunt2011 ?

 

[shunt2011]

I'm currently using SL and CA, but I was curious what combinations people use as I haven't found a 'common' formula or any info sites that talk about combinations. Only single additive pages with how to use them and what they do individually.
I haven't seen Tetrasodium EDTA before, so I'll definitely check that out. Do you think it's better than citric acid @shunt2011 ?

I don't know as I've never used Citric Acid. Have you perused DeeAnna's great information.

https://classicbells.com/soap/soapyStuff.asp

 

[Vickyn]

I don't know as I've never used Citric Acid. Have you perused DeeAnna's great information.

https://classicbells.com/soap/soapyStuff.asp

Ooooh thanks @shunt2011
I hadn't seen this, but I'll definitely look through the info.

 

[AliOop]

For all the reasons listed by @shunt2011, I use vinegar, sugar, and either salt or SL in almost every batch. I will add CA if I know the person who wants the soap has hard water (e.g., my sister’s water is so hard that their toilets are horrifically stained with minerals).

In some recipes, I also add tussah silk for extra slip, colloidal oats and goat milk for soothing, or a bit of clay to help the EO scent stick a bit better.

Most additives play well together, except that salt counters bubbles (which is why you really want to include sugar for bubbles if you use salt rather than SL). But there can be a cumulative effect of batter heating up if you use several sugar-containing additives (sugar, milks, fruit purées) without planning your process carefully.

Also, there is a long thread here about how one soaper has trouble getting her HP to cook when she used both vinegar and CA in the same batch.

 

[Vickyn]

For all the reasons listed by @shunt2011, I use vinegar, sugar, and either salt or SL in almost every batch. I will add CA if I know the person who wants the soap has hard water (e.g., my sister’s water is so hard that their toilets are horrifically stained with minerals).

In some recipes, I also add tussah silk for extra slip, colloidal oats and goat milk for soothing, or a bit of clay to help the EO scent stick a bit better.

Most additives play well together, except that salt counters bubbles (which is why you really want to include sugar for bubbles if you use salt rather than SL). But there can be a cumulative effect of batter heating up if you use several sugar-containing additives (sugar, milks, fruit purées) without planning your process carefully.

Also, there is a long thread here about how one soaper has trouble getting her HP to cook when she used both vinegar and CA in the same batch.

Thanks for this @AliOop . I might try a few of my recipes with this and compare the two. It sounds far cheaper than what I'm using.
I'm sure you've probably worked out any stearic spots in your soap as an experienced maker, but did you find the sugar increased this when you started out? I'm new to CP and found it increased soda ash and spots when I used it previously on a basic 33, 33 , 34 coconut, olive and palm recipe. Maybe the vinegar or salt balances this out?
I'm hoping to convert my M&P sugar scrub soap into a CP at some point, so this would really help.

 

[cmzaha]

I use vinegar for 50% water replacement, if I want to use milks I use powdered. I use Tetrasodium EDTA and Sodium at 0.5% each as Chelators and Sorbitol at 1% to add lather. I find sorbitol works better than sugar, but sugar works.

 

[dibbles]

I use sodium lactate, sugar and sodium citrate in almost every batch. SL for ease in unmolding, sugar for bubble boos and sodium citrate as a chelator.

 

[AliOop]

Thanks for this @AliOop . did you find the sugar increased this when you started out? I'm new to CP and found it increased soda ash and spots when I used it previously on a basic 33, 33 , 34 coconut, olive and palm recipe. Maybe the vinegar or salt balances this out?

I haven't had a lot of trouble with stearic spots, but I tend to soap a little warmer than many CP soapers. My favorite recipe has a high amount of lard, which gives a lot of time for swirling even at warmer temps.

I do get a fair amount of ash unless I CPOP, but it doesn't seem to relate to the sugar, but because I don't always cover my soap long enough, and I don't spray with RA. Mostly I don't care about ash. The bars I make most often are single-color or uncolored in cavity molds, and the ash actually accentuates the mold design. None of my family or friends to whom I gift it have ever cared about it, either. If I'm giving a fancy bar as a gift to someone outside my close circle, I either steam off or plane off the ash, and call it good.

 

[Vickyn]

I use vinegar for 50% water replacement, if I want to use milks I use powdered. I use Tetrasodium EDTA and Sodium at 0.5% each as Chelators and Sorbitol at 1% to add lather. I find sorbitol works better than sugar, but sugar works.

Oh 50%! Wow. I haven't looked into vinegar yet, but I think that should be my next thing to look at. Thanks @cmzaha

 

[Vickyn]

I haven't had a lot of trouble with stearic spots, but I tend to soap a little warmer than many CP soapers. My favorite recipe has a high amount of lard, which gives a lot of time for swirling even at warmer temps.

I do get a fair amount of ash unless I CPOP, but it doesn't seem to relate to the sugar, but because I don't always cover my soap long enough, and I don't spray with RA. Mostly I don't care about ash. The bars I make most often are single-color or uncolored in cavity molds, and the ash actually accentuates the mold design. None of my family or friends to whom I gift it have ever cared about it, either. If I'm giving a fancy bar as a gift to someone outside my close circle, I either steam off or plane off the ash, and call it good.

Ah ok. Thanks for the temperature tip. Maybe that would help. I think I definitely need to look at my additives again and try a few more combinations.

 

[cmzaha]

Oh 50%! Wow. I haven't looked into vinegar yet, but I think that should be my next thing to look at. Thanks @cmzaha

Do not forget it you use vinegar you multiply the amount of vinegar you are using by 0.0357 to get the extra amount of NaOH needed for your batch to make sodium acetate.

 

[Vickyn]

Do not forget it you use vinegar you multiply the amount of vinegar you are using by 0.0357 to get the extra amount of NaOH needed for your batch to make sodium acetate.

Oh amazing. Thanks for that tip. Haven't looked into it yet, but I definitely will over the weekend.