what's the difference between shampoo bars and regular bars?

[earlene]

Just my experience, as a woman with longer than waist-length hair which is also white and blonde. Using a very luxurious lye shampoo bar seemed quite nice for about a month or so. Then the damage began to show. My hair became like straw with prolonged use. I don't even wash my hair frequently. I only wash it about once or twice a week at the most. I never use conditioners because they cause my face to get red and blotchy. I only use water to rinse. And am not in the least interested in trying new products to rinse the soap out of my hair. Plain water works best for me. ACV makes my scalp oily (tried it for a long time, having read it would at first, but would stop after some time; it only made my scalp oily, so it's not for me.)

The dry straw effect of shampoo bars made with NaOH is enough to make me resist them because I have no desire to cut my hair short just so I can use a shampoo bar.

For short hair like my husband's, I don't expect it would cause enough damage to the hair itself that it would matter because he gets it cut frequently. But for very long hair, the damage is far too great for me to bear.

I doubt I will try making a syndet bar, as I just don't feel motivated to do so, and I doubt I'll get around to trying one, although I wouldn't rule it out sometime in the future.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

The dry straw effect of shampoo bars made with NaOH is enough to make me resist them because I have no desire to cut my hair short just so I can use a shampoo bar.

For short hair like my husband's, I don't expect it would cause enough damage to the hair itself that it would matter because he gets it cut frequently. But for very long hair, the damage is far too great for me to bear.

I doubt I will try making a syndet bar, as I just don't feel motivated to do so, and I doubt I'll get around to trying one, although I wouldn't rule it out sometime in the future.

So you use commercial shampoo? I can't help but wonder if a non-syndet natural liquid shampoo like that 100% almond oil LS I made for a customer would work for you? And what about working a conditioning oil through your tresses after shampooing while the hair is still damp?

 

[Nanditasr]

From all the replies here, I've concluded that soaps work for some people, and probably don't work for the majority. I'll keep trying a variety of bars -- in the worst case, they'll still make excellent body soaps!

 

[Nanditasr]

Note: I once had a request to make a 100% almond oil (liquid) shampoo for a customer and I was totally blown away by the result. Wonderful, gentle cleansing shampoo that left my hair and scalp totally clean, conditioned, manageable and shiny.

It's important to rinse thoroughly with increasingly cool water until it's as cold as you can stand it..

My dear hubby loves this hard bar for body soap and shampoo. it leaves his white thin hair clean, manageable, shiny and bright without a trace of yellow. I make liquid shampoo for me but I like, and use this bar also:

32% Water or Aloe Vera Juice ($6.99/gal Walmart)
2% superfat
62.5% palm oil (or lard)
23.5% olive oil
14% palm kernel oil

Thanks. This looks like an easy recipe to try out. I may even use soybean instead of olive oil since it's also very moisturising. The full almond oil bar looks interesting and promising.

A question: Do I need to use progressively cooler water, or can I just use cool water?

 

[Zany_in_CO]

The full almond oil bar looks interesting and promising.

The Almond Oil is not a shampoo bar, it's liquid shampoo.

A question: Do I need to use progressively cooler water, or can I just use cool water?

LOL Don't be a scaredy cat... I always go as cold as I can stand it. I think it wakes my brain up! :mrgreen: Seriously, whatever works for you should be fine. It's just really important to rinse long enough to get all the soap scum out. You can also try a beer rinse -- cold from the fridge or half & half with water.

 

[DeeAnna]

KOH soap or NaOH soap ... the specific alkali makes no matter. It's still lye-based soap with the same issue of high pH being damaging to hair.

 

[Nanditasr]

The Almond Oil is not a shampoo bar, it's liquid shampoo.

LOL Don't be a scaredy cat... I always go as cold as I can stand it. I think it wakes my brain up! :mrgreen: Seriously, whatever works for you should be fine. It's just really important to rinse long enough to get all the soap scum out. You can also try a beer rinse -- cold from the fridge or half & half with water.

Thanks; I failed to notice that it was a liquid shampoo!
I have no problem washing my hair with cool water. The (flat) beer rinse sounds interesting!

 

[Nanditasr]

From all the replies here, I've concluded that soaps work for some people, and probably don't work for the majority. I'll keep trying a variety of bars -- in the worst case, they'll still make excellent body soaps!

So I'm still sitting on the fence on soap vs. shampoo. My more recent bars are very moisturising (silky and fantastic on the body, with only 10% CO), and my hair is almost tangle-free after a wash. I still use leave-in vinegar at 1:10 or so, though. My hair still looks duller than when washed with shampoo, but less dull than it did with my earlier soaps. I still use shampoo more often -- twice for every wash with soap.

I can accept the lower sheen, if I know that soap is decidedly better for the health of my hair (from a scientific standpoint) -- which I'm still confused about. Anyway, knowing that soap is alkaline by nature, I have a couple of naive questions:

1. If I apply a 1:5 vinegar (or lemon juice) solution to my hair for about an hour before a wash, and then wash with soap, will it be better for the health of my hair?

2. Human skin is also acidic, though less acidic than human hair. Considering this, why do we not use a weak vinegar rinse on our bodies?

 

[DeeAnna]

I don't think an acidic pre-wash will make a lot of difference, if any, to skin or hair, but I'm not an expert on skin nor have I tried it.

Hair has a structure of overlapping scales that lift up with high pH. That's why it looks dull and feels dry or harsh when damaged. Skin does not have these scales. Also, hair is non living, so has no ability for repair. Skin is living and can renew itself.

Edit ... There was a big whoop te do some years ago about soap being horrible for the acid mantle of the skin, so we should all use Dove and similar products. Research showed even washing with plain water disturbs the acid mantle of the skin ... but the skin adjusts back to normal fairly quickly.

 

[penelopejane]

I can accept the lower sheen, if I know that soap is decidedly better for the health of my hair (from a scientific standpoint)

What makes you think soap is better for the health of your hair?
We have a hairdresser and scientist who both say it is not good for hair and many others who after a few months have had to cut off their hair because of the damage done by soap.

 

[Nanditasr]

What makes you think soap is better for the health of your hair?
We have a hairdresser and scientist who both say it is not good for hair and many others who after a few months have had to cut off their hair because of the damage done by soap.

No, I don't think or know that it is better; I am ignorant and therefore confused seeing that there are people at either end of the spectrum -- that is why I said "if I know". What I meant was that if I get to know definitively from some scientists that soap is bad, I won't pursue looking for the "holy grail of soap for hair".

Thanks for mentioning that there is a scientist -- I'll read the whole trail again.

 

[penelopejane]

No, I don't think or know that it is better; I am ignorant and therefore confused seeing that there are people at either end of the spectrum -- that is why I said "if I know". What I meant was that if I get to know definitively from some scientists that soap is bad, I won't pursue looking for the "holy grail of soap for hair".

Thanks for mentioning that there is a scientist -- I'll read the whole trail again.

It seems that people of Asian descent have a hair type that is more resistant to damage caused by lye based soap. Some people say their hair is fine with lye based soap but they are often people with short hair and have it cut regularly. So reading people’s opinions can be confusing I agree.

There are lots of “natural” shampoos on the chemist’s shelf that are a better solution for your hair in the long run that will allay any fears you have about the ingredients in regular shampoo if that is a concern to you and a reason for seeking an alternative. One thing that does seem to be an effective (for silky shiny hair) additive to shampoo is activated charcoal. Ive been using shampoo and conditioner that has about 1 tsp AC in about 200ml at a guess and it really makes a difference.

Otherwise just try soap on your hair for a year and prove to yourself if it is beneficial for your type of hair.

 

[Nanditasr]

There are lots of “natural” shampoos on the chemist’s shelf that are a better solution for your hair in the long run that will allay any fears you have about the ingredients in regular shampoo if that is a concern to you and a reason for seeking an alternative. One thing that does seem to be an effective (for silky shiny hair) additive to shampoo is activated charcoal.

Thanks; I'll try activated charcoal.

More than anything else, it's the sense of satisfaction from knowing exactly what has gone into it! After a few more trials, I'll probably end up sticking to my shampoo, or using soap nuts.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

What makes you think soap is better for the health of your hair?

There's plenty of evidence outside this forum that this is so, at least for some of us. But I'm not here to convert anyone who believes otherwise. Only to be allowed to share what I know from experience that shampoo bars are not only good for my hair, but free of chemicals and much less expensive to make. I wouldn't say they are "better" -- different strokes for different folks, yes?

Perhaps if there wasn't a "gag order" on the subject of shampoo bars here (that seems to be lifted currently), and if those who had a bad experience had other soapers (as I did) to instruct them on the proper way to switch over to an all natural option vs commercial shampoo, i.e., to rinse thoroughly with cool-cold water and wait out the year of adjustment, then maybe they would be making and using a shampoo bar (or LS) too! One can only imagine.

There are lots of “natural” shampoos on the chemist’s shelf that are a better solution for your hair ...

Really, PJ? Good to know. I tried a few "natural" shampoos before making my own that went south (stinky) after about 6 months, so that wasn't an option for me. However, Dr. Bronner's Castile is a winner and I currently make a dupe of that -- originally made by request for a wholesale customer.

If it isn't too much trouble, could you please share some examples?

 

[Nanditasr]

There's plenty of evidence outside this forum that this is so, at least for some of us.

I guess it'll remain like the IOS vs. Android debate, or whether to sugar one's milk or not! Ultimately, we just need to figure out what works for us.

 

[penelopejane]

Thanks; I'll try activated charcoal.

More than anything else, it's the sense of satisfaction from knowing exactly what has gone into it! After a few more trials, I'll probably end up sticking to my shampoo, or using soap nuts.

Yes it’s nice to know exactly what you are putting on your skin and hair.
If you go back to shampoo try some of the real herbal berbal ones - some work better than others. Personally I find hair is so difficult because when I find a solution that results in perfect hair after a few weeks my hair chucks a hissy fit and reverts to disaster. I find I need to alternate between two different shampoos for a while (maybe once a month) then it calms down again.

Mind you it might also be stress or illness that causes the reversion. So difficult to decypher.

I guess it'll remain like the IOS vs. Android debate, or whether to sugar one's milk or not! Ultimately, we just need to figure out what works for us.

Or the olive oil debate!
We are all so different - skin and hair particularly - that it’s impossible to definitively say something works for everyone.
We all just bumble along trying to find the holy grail for our particular skin and hair and climate and health at any particular time.

Always good to hear other people’s experiences and opinions and then test for yourself.

 

[Nanditasr]

If you go back to shampoo try some of the real herbal herbal ones - some work better than others...I find I need to alternate between two different shampoos for a while (maybe once a month) then it calms down again.

Being in India, I can't get a real herbal herbal one, but I think soap nuts are decent. I know what you mean about alternating shampoos -- I do that with deodorant, even though I make my own now.

Mind you it might also be stress or illness that causes the reversion. So difficult to decypher.

Even harder when you factor in the change in weather/season.

 

[MorpheusPA]

Honestly, I think shampoo bars are a very individual thing. I did have some dry hair with a high-coconut bar (I was using the bath bar on my hair as well), but my skin reacted the same way.

Changing over to high lard, high tallow, or high olive bars stopped that problem.

I react well. My husband reacts well. My mother has to use a syndet shampoo due to having dyed hair.

I've seen some people try a shampoo bar and look like a static-ridden poodle.

I don't have any theories on what the personal differences are, other than to say that try it if you want--on a weekend when you can hibernate if it doesn't go well!

 

[Nanditasr]

Honestly, I think shampoo bars are a very individual thing. I did have some dry hair with a high-coconut bar (I was using the bath bar on my hair as well), but my skin reacted the same way.

Changing over to high lard, high tallow, or high olive bars stopped that problem.

I totally see what you mean. Coconut oil is the go-to oil for any true-blue person from southern India, but I find the oil application drying for both my hair and my skin. Therefore, it's not surprising that I'm not crazy about all-coconut oil soaps -- they really pull at my skin! I find soaps with generous quantities of palm, castor, neem, soybean or sunflower most nourishing.

One thing that does seem to be an effective (for silky shiny hair) additive to shampoo is activated charcoal. Ive been using shampoo and conditioner that has about 1 tsp AC in about 200ml at a guess and it really makes a difference.

Thanks. I'm getting ready to make it, so all the questions pop into my head now! Is that 1 tsp for 200 ml of water in your recipe? Water:lye of 2.83? Any water discounting? Do you add the AC to the lye itself, or at trace?

 

[penelopejane]

Thanks. I'm getting ready to make it, so all the questions pop into my head now! Is that 1 tsp for 200 ml of water in your recipe? Water:lye of 2.83? Any water discounting? Do you add the AC to the lye itself, or at trace?

I don't make my own shampoo.
I use commercial shampoo by Husk.
As you can see from the photo the AC looks like it is added at the end and handblended.
If I were you I would make a mix of 2 tsp of AC and 2 tsp of Glycerin or water and add 1/8 tsp of this mixture at a time to your mix to try and get the right amount using this photo.
The one on the bottom is conditioner, the one on the top is shampoo.

Hope this helps