what's the difference between shampoo bars and regular bars?

[Nanditasr]

I find that shampoo bars/ soaps tend to leave the hair looking dull, even if I use an ACV rinse. Is there anything I can do to make the hair shiny, the way a shampoo leaves it?

 

[Obsidian]

Very few people can use soap on their hair. It's common to have dull, rough hair. It's from the high pH of soap and soap scum.

If your hair doesn't like soap, go back to shampoo before your hair gets damaged. It's much gentler and safer for most people.

 

[cmzaha]

Shampoo bars are syndet bars made with mild detergents. Soap is soap and bad for hair no matter what you do to them. My syndet shampoo bars are very gentle and leave my gray hair feeling very nice no tangles and no conditioner needed. Problem being, they are quite pricey to make but worth it in my opinion. If I decide I need a titch of conditioner I just use a little of my shave lotion which has all the vitamins of a conditioner, since conditioner is basically a lotion. If you love your hair treat it nice and do not use soap on it. Remember hair is dead and cannot actually be fixed once it is damaged. You just can't fix "dead"

 

[Traumabrew]

To my add 2 cents...

From what I have read, lye based soap/shampoo bars are not very good for your hair because they are alkaline and hair prefers to be acidic. So, you dont want to use a lye based product on your hair. However you can make solid shampoo bars without lye.

Here is a link to a great article on this.

http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.ca/2009/05/road-trip-essentials-solid-shampoo-bar.html

 

[Nanditasr]

Thanks, Obsidian, cmzaha and Traumabrew. I think I'll just continue to buy shampoo -- making it seems rather involved!

 

[Nite Hawk]

I would love to learn to make a proper shampoo bar, as commercial shampoo doesn't "sit well" with my hair. Also, if you do any research on shampoo, many of them have some really nasty ingredients with real nasty long term side effects on the health. Onetime I was using a "dandruff" shampoo. Well believe me, I got the worlds worse case of dandruff AFTER using that shampoo, and it took a long time o get over it..
Shampoo recipes anyone??

 

[Obsidian]

Give this a try, it's been my favorite. If you don't have neem, replace it with avocado and make sure you run it through a lyecalc.

http://www.evernote.com/l/ANi0chvOL_5PbJrp3vjvBfXtC3VrksdJUv4/

 

[Nanditasr]

Shampoo recipes anyone??

I did see another thread here, but I'm just not able to find it now. I think it referred to someone named Lindy (?) who said that coconut oil is drying, in response to which the OP said she had eliminated coconut oil completely from her formula. The one listed by Obsidian also has very little coconut oil, so it should be worth a try, if you can get all the ingredients.

 

[DeeAnna]

But Lindy's recipe is still a true soap -- meaning soap made by saponifying fat and lye. Any soap made with lye will have a high pH. This doesn't change whether the recipe has coconut oil or not, so the same concerns about true soap damaging the hair still applies.

 

[penelopejane]

To my add 2 cents...

From what I have read, lye based soap/shampoo bars are not very good for your hair because they are alkaline and hair prefers to be acidic. So, you dont want to use a lye based product on your hair. However you can make solid shampoo bars without lye.

Here is a link to a great article on this.

http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.ca/2009/05/road-trip-essentials-solid-shampoo-bar.html

Swift crafty monkey is great but we have an organic shampoo line in Australia made by Sukin (I am sure there is something similar in the US) which doesn't have silicone or some of the other ingredients you might not like to use that are listed on this swift crafty monkey link.

It is great shampoo that works but I haven't made shampoo so have no idea how it is formulated.

The complete list of ingredients is:
Water (Aqua), Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Juice, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Sodium Lauroyl Methyl Isethionate, Cocos Nucifera (Coconut) Fruit Extract, Butyrospermum Parkii (Shea) Butter, Olea Europaea (Olive) Fruit Oil, Tocopherol (Vitamin E), Glycerin, Polyquaternium-10, Sodium Chloride, Fragrance (Parfum)*, Tetrasodium Glutamate Diacetate, Citric Acid, Phenoxyethanol, Benzyl Alcohol, Limonene**, Citral**. *Natural Fragrance **Component of Natural Fragrance

 

[cmzaha]

You do not have to add silicone to shampoo bars just omit it and add it to the SCI or liquid surfactant you decide to use. I happen to love the feel of 'cones in lotions and shampoo bars, but it is a personal choice

 

[Rune]

I have washed my hair with regular homemade soap. And I feel my hair benefits from it. I have oily and thin hair (nordic hair). So I get more volume and a drier hair. I have relatively short hair also. But I can definately understand why lye soap is not good for hair in general. I feel my hair becomes like if I have bleached it. That doesn't last long, though, since my oily hair will repair it quite quickly. I have not tried an acidic rince afterwards.

I know different recipes can yield different results and so on. But if I was a woman and had long and dry hair, I think I would never use lye soap. It feels damaging to the hair. It looks matte as well. As a guy with short hair, that doesn't matter very much. I like damaged hair. I just wish it would last longer. Remember, I have nordic hair, and that is the worst hair type in the world. So damaging means less nordic. And that is fine. In the past I used to bleach my hair, and it made wonders! I also tried home perm, just without making curls. That did work too.

The problem with commercial shampoos, is that they always contain all sorts of conditioning agents. It leaves my hair thinner, totally flat and get oily much quicker. I really prefer dish washing detergent. Not that I have used it lately. But that is great for nordic hair. It gets totally stripped from fat, and are not conditioning. But homemade soap is also just as good, or better as dish washing detergent. And that means not good for everybody else than us with thin and hostile nordic hair. But maybe it gets better with an acid rinse. I'm lazy, so I have not tried that.

(It is not everybody with nordic hair that has a 24/7 bad hair day, just sayin'. In my family, it is just me and my aunt. All the others don't have the problems we face. For example, if I have to go to the grocery store and have not showered the same day, I have to dip my head in water. Soaking wet. And then dry it and style it. It is the only thing that helps. I can not just use some gel or hairspray to fix it. No, no, it must be fully soaked, otherwise it will go back to bad bed head in seconds. So the bed head does not slide out at all, while everything else does. And I have to use THE strongest hairsprays to fixate it after styling. The hairspray must be so strong that it feels like if I have a helmet on. Everything else will just slide out in the matter of a few seconds).

Will I make shampoo bars for eventually others than myself? I don't think so. Detergent shampoo are maybe better for most people.

 

[Nanditasr]

I have washed my hair with regular homemade soap. And I feel my hair benefits from it. I have oily and thin hair (nordic hair). So I get more volume and a drier hair.

I totally get what you mean -- soap makes the hair rough and thick, which is why it would help anyone who is trying to combat fine/ thin/ silky hair.

Give this a try, it's been my favorite.

Thanks. I assume you mean it's your favourite as a body soap (and not for the hair)?

Avocado oil and shea butter are rare and expensive in India. Perhaps I have to look for other oils with the same SAP values?

 

[cmzaha]

I have washed my hair with regular homemade soap. And I feel my hair benefits from it. I have oily and thin hair (nordic hair). So I get more volume and a drier hair. I have relatively short hair also. But I can definately understand why lye soap is not good for hair in general. I feel my hair becomes like if I have bleached it. That doesn't last long, though, since my oily hair will repair it quite quickly. I have not tried an acidic rince afterwards.

I know different recipes can yield different results and so on. But if I was a woman and had long and dry hair, I think I would never use lye soap. It feels damaging to the hair. It looks matte as well. As a guy with short hair, that doesn't matter very much. I like damaged hair. I just wish it would last longer. Remember, I have nordic hair, and that is the worst hair type in the world. So damaging means less nordic. And that is fine. In the past I used to bleach my hair, and it made wonders! I also tried home perm, just without making curls. That did work too.

The problem with commercial shampoos, is that they always contain all sorts of conditioning agents. It leaves my hair thinner, totally flat and get oily much quicker. I really prefer dish washing detergent. Not that I have used it lately. But that is great for nordic hair. It gets totally stripped from fat, and are not conditioning. But homemade soap is also just as good, or better as dish washing detergent. And that means not good for everybody else than us with thin and hostile nordic hair. But maybe it gets better with an acid rinse. I'm lazy, so I have not tried that.

(It is not everybody with nordic hair that has a 24/7 bad hair day, just sayin'. In my family, it is just me and my aunt. All the others don't have the problems we face. For example, if I have to go to the grocery store and have not showered the same day, I have to dip my head in water. Soaking wet. And then dry it and style it. It is the only thing that helps. I can not just use some gel or hairspray to fix it. No, no, it must be fully soaked, otherwise it will go back to bad bed head in seconds. So the bed head does not slide out at all, while everything else does. And I have to use THE strongest hairsprays to fixate it after styling. The hairspray must be so strong that it feels like if I have a helmet on. Everything else will just slide out in the matter of a few seconds).

Will I make shampoo bars for eventually others than myself? I don't think so. Detergent shampoo are maybe better for most people.

You can certainly make shampoo bars without the conditioners. My shampoo bars leave my hair fluffy and I use no conditioners after. I have soft somewhat fine gray hair. Fine hair is even more susceptible to damage and the oil does not fix it only leaves a coating. You can make a shampoo bar with more astringent oils such as grapeseed and leave out any butters or use mango butter which is also a bit astringent. That is the glory of shampoo bars, you tweak them to work for your hair. Dish washing detergent is just a combination of surfactants (detergents). At least if you make your own you can control which detergents you use in your shampoo

 

[Obsidian]

Thanks. I assume you mean it's your favourite as a body soap (and not for the hair)?

Avocado oil and shea butter are rare and expensive in India. Perhaps I have to look for other oils with the same SAP values?

No, I mean it my favorite as far as shampoo bars go. While I don't use soap on my hair anymore, that recipe was the best. Its also a great facial soap or for general dry skin.

You could probably replace the avocado with rice bran and the shea with mango butter but I would really try to stick with the avo and shea. Its relatively expensive here too and the neem was very pricy but a 2lb batch of soap will last well over a year if you are just using it on hair.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Shampoo Bars vs Regular Bars

With all due respect to my colleagues here that prefer syndets, from my POV, the choice is similar to HP vs CP -- whatever pops your cork is the way to go. I'm a big fan of homemade all natural shampoo bars and I'm thankful that SMF wasn't my first soapmaking forum or I never would have had the pleasure of making homemade shampoo bars.

That being said, the difference between shampoo bars and regular bars is the time it takes to find the choice of oils/fats/butters you find that work for you and for your hair. There's no "one size fits all". For some, that may be coconut-oil-based (copious lather, highly cleansing); for others, that may be olive-oil-based (negligible lather, gentle cleansing), or any variation you can imagine. Note: I once had a request to make a 100% almond oil (liquid) shampoo for a customer and I was totally blown away by the result. Wonderful, gentle cleansing shampoo that left my hair and scalp totally clean, conditioned, manageable and shiny.

Personally, I've been shampooing for years with every "regular bar" that happens to be in the shower that day, which led to some interesting discoveries. But that first year was challenging. It took time to find the right formula for me. Other CP-ers have the same experience. It's not unusual for a soaper to go back to commercial shampoo for a week or two during that first year before carrying on, as I did. It does take time for your hair to get used to using a non-syndet all natural hard bar.

I find that shampoo bars/ soaps tend to leave the hair looking dull, even if I use an ACV rinse. Is there anything I can do to make the hair shiny, the way a shampoo leaves it?

It's important to rinse thoroughly with increasingly cool water until it's as cold as you can stand it, to close the hair shaft and remove all the soap scum. An acid rinse with apple cider vinegar or lemon (and others) helps remove any residual scum and restores the pH balance to the scalp. A beer rinse adds volume.

For shine, I like to rub a dot or two of argan oil between my palms, then apply to the ends before working it through the rest of my hair. Note: My SIL is a former hair stylist and the same age as I am (old). When I saw her last April for the first time in more than 10 years, she couldn't believe I didn't color my hair or put a lot of product on it.

I would love to learn to make a proper shampoo bar, as commercial shampoo doesn't "sit well" with my hair. Also, if you do any research on shampoo, many of them have some really nasty ingredients with real nasty long term side effects on the health.

I agree. I didn't learn to make my own bath and body products to dump more chemicals into my system! :mrgreen:

Shampoo recipes anyone??

My dear hubby loves this hard bar for body soap and shampoo. it leaves his white thin hair clean, manageable, shiny and bright without a trace of yellow. I make liquid shampoo for me but I like, and use this bar also:

32% Water or Aloe Vera Juice ($6.99/gal Walmart)
2% superfat
62.5% palm oil (or lard)
23.5% olive oil
14% palm kernel oil

HTH :bunny:
​

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

I think comparing it to hp Vs cp isn't overly helpful- with those methods, the end product is almost the same. They might look slightly different, but the biggest difference is in the method itself. As you said, it's whatever pops your cork with cp or hp.

But many people simply cannot use lye based soap on their hair. It's not really a case of choosing what they prefer to use but rather what does or doesn't damage their hair.

Some people, like you, do seem to be able to use them and it works well. There are a couple of other members here who can. But not everyone

 

[Nite Hawk]

Some folks with extremely high iron water end up with yellow /orange colored hair:headbanging: not what is wanted.. and some people that have had their hair turn orange had light brown ---not white-- hair..
Some people with white hair have tried a bit of blueing to get rid of the yellow, but one has to be careful, cause I have seen white hair with a tinge of blue to it, and I knew they were trying to get rid of the yellow / orange color using laundry blueing...

 

[Nite Hawk]

One of the reasons it would be nice to find an alternative to many commercial shampoos, is that according to different web pages out there, some say that some common shampoos have pretty toxic chemicals in them...
I would like to either see a rebuttal from the shampoo companies if not true, and the web page shut down, or the shampoo companies need to change their ingredients if what the web pages says is true..
an interesting read..
https://www.naturalnews.com/003210.html
--and no I have absolutely no monetary interest ( or other interest )in this web page or others like it out there...

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Chagrin Valley Shampoo Bar FAQ

Chagrin Valley Shampoo Bar FAQ

You can learn everything about non-syndet, all natural, shampoo bars at Chagrin Valley's excellent web site. Be inspired with the variety of shampoo bars they offer for every type of hair. Find the answers to your questions and what oils/butters/fats may be best for your hair. If I had it to do over again, I would have tried a few of their bars before embarking on formulating my own. I love the idea of a mix of herbal infused oils with essential oils added for fragrance as well as their beneficial properties.

https://www.chagrinvalleysoapandsalve.com/blog/posts/everything-about-shampoo-bars/

HTH