What is forming on top of my soap?

[Delon]

Hi yall, I hope this is the correct place to post this! This is my second batch of soap, and I’m not really sure what’s forming on top of my soap. Almost looks like little crystals.

I put the soap in the freezer right after pouring since I’m using coconut milk in the recipe. Any ideas on what it could be? Btw, the bars had been out of the freezer for 24 hours when this picture was taken and the white stuff is still there. I haven’t tried to wipe it off just yet.

 

[Zing]

Can you please post your recipe including any additives and scents?
Your soap looks nice.

 

[AliOop]

Yes, please do as @Zing asked. Meanwhile, what the pictures appear to show is that your loaf overheated and separated, creating lye tunnels. Those "teeth" looking things are one of the signs of that. Is there any liquid below those spots, or are those just empty holes?

Until we know more, I'd wear gloves and be very careful while handling those bars.

 

[Delon]

Can you please post your recipe including any additives and scents?
Your soap looks nice.

Thank you!

Yes, please do as @Zing asked. Meanwhile, what the pictures appear to show is that your loaf overheated and separated, creating lye tunnels. Those "teeth" looking things are one of the signs of that. Is there any liquid below those spots, or are those just empty holes?

Until we know more, I'd wear gloves and be very careful while handling those bars.

@AliOop @Zing

This is only my second batch of soap, so I've already been told by people on Reddit how horrible I was to use lime juice. I won't use it again.

I used a 50/50 lye solution with iced lime juice. 5% super fat.

15% Coconut oil
5% castor oil
20% coconut milk
30% olive oil
15% shea butter
15% sunflower oil

I placed the soap in the freezer right after pouring, so I'm not sure how this overheated.

I unmolded the soap closer to 48 hours because the mold was too soft to unmold prior to that point. When I cut the soap, it was still pretty soft. I placed the cut bars on freezer paper and left them alone for another day and a half. I tried the zap test, got zapped, and left them alone for another day. On the 4th day, I did not get zapped. I tried the zap test on multiple bars and no zap.

I accidentally poured the titanium dioxide in without dispersing it in distilled water first, so there are small white dots. I looked it up, and people say it's fine to use and won't harm your skin. Also, the bars are completely dry, no extra oils in the holes. There aren't holes in all the bars, just a few (1-3).

I read on another post from a few years back that it could be bad soda ash because it wipes off with a damp paper towel.

I was able to try out the end piece a day after I did not get zapped since it was more sample-sized, and the lather was perfect. The bars have hardened, and the one I tried feels great on my skin.

I just don't know what that is on top, and I wasn't sure if anyone else has experienced this.

 

[akseattle]

@Delon, hmmm, I've never got little crystals like that, but I've gotten soda ash.
I actually thought that soda ash can form small crystals like that. But, again, I don't speak from experience.

 

[Ekuzo]

I regularly get soda ash, just not crystals like these - but I've seen people get all types of soda ash, so it won't surprise me if it's just that. Plus you said you get no zap and it gets easily removed.

Why is the coconut milk included within the oil % though, could it be that it messes up the math for you, and what calculator did you use? Also, why did you decide to have both lime juice and coconut milk for the liquid part?

When you made the 50% lye solution with the lime juice, did you notice any sediment or undissolved stuff in it, and did you strain it when you poured it into the oils?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm just trying to figure out what's happening with the recipe, it has so much going on.

There are a least of couple of things that are usually not done with your second batch, but when you gain more experience with soap. Like mixing different alternative liquids or dissolving lye in the same amount of liquid (for example, if you don't measure correctly you can have undissolved lye in your jug. Plus when the liquid is lime juice it's not exactly all water but has citric acid as well among other things, so that changes the math - it's like NaOH doesn't have enough stuff to dissolve in initially, but at the same time, the citric acid neutralizes some of the NaOH and the reaction even gives out some additional water - see how complicated this is lol! Someone with chemical background can do the math and say if it's actually possible to properly dissolve NaOH in the same amount of lime juice, but I wouldn't risk it.

With that being said, if the soap works fine it's a win. Just make sure your next batch is not overly complicated and you pull such stunts only after you are more experienced

 

[DeeAnna]

A recipe will answer a lot of questions so we don't keep guessing.

My guess is the recipe has a high amount of water. What with freezing the soap and a generous amount of water, the free lye in the soap reacted with carbon dioxide in the air to form sodium carbonate (soda ash) rather than react with the fats in your soap batter.

Soda ash on soap often looks like a thin layer of white dust, but it can form large, obvious crystals if conditions are right. My guess is freezing the soap during saponification is the reason for this type of crystal formation.

People choose to freeze or refrigerate their soap when using dairy milk to prevent the soap from darkening from the heat of saponification. IMO there's no benefit to freezing/refrigerating soap made with coconut milk, however. The soap I've made with coconut milk has turned out nice and white, even though I never put soap in the fridge or freezer.

 

[Delon]

I regularly get soda ash, just not crystals like these - but I've seen people get all types of soda ash, so it won't surprise me if it's just that. Plus you said you get no zap and it gets easily removed.

Why is the coconut milk included within the oil % though, could it be that it messes up the math for you, and what calculator did you use? Also, why did you decide to have both lime juice and coconut milk for the liquid part?

When you made the 50% lye solution with the lime juice, did you notice any sediment or undissolved stuff in it, and did you strain it when you poured it into the oils?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm just trying to figure out what's happening with the recipe, it has so much going on.

There are a least of couple of things that are usually not done with your second batch, but when you gain more experience with soap. Like mixing different alternative liquids or dissolving lye in the same amount of liquid (for example, if you don't measure correctly you can have undissolved lye in your jug. Plus when the liquid is lime juice it's not exactly all water but has citric acid as well among other things, so that changes the math - it's like NaOH doesn't have enough stuff to dissolve in initially, but at the same time, the citric acid neutralizes some of the NaOH and the reaction even gives out some additional water - see how complicated this is lol! Someone with chemical background can do the math and say if it's actually possible to properly dissolve NaOH in the same amount of lime juice, but I wouldn't risk it.

With that being said, if the soap works fine it's a win. Just make sure your next batch is not overly complicated and you pull such stunts only after you are more experienced

This is only the second batch of soap I've made, so I'm still learning. I've seen people use water and milk where they add the milk in with their oils (lye solution made with water).
I used soap calc.

There was no lye left in the solution. I stirred until I didn't feel any lye left in the solution.

I followed a video from YouTube where the creator makes all-natural soaps.

A recipe will answer a lot of questions so we don't keep guessing.

My guess is the recipe has a high amount of water. What with freezing the soap and a generous amount of water, the free lye in the soap reacted with carbon dioxide in the air to form sodium carbonate (soda ash) rather than react with the fats in your soap batter.

Soda ash on soap often looks like a thin layer of white dust, but it can form large, obvious crystals if conditions are right. My guess is freezing the soap during saponification is the reason for this type of crystal formation.

People choose to freeze or refrigerate their soap when using dairy milk to prevent the soap from darkening from the heat of saponification. IMO there's no benefit to freezing/refrigerating soap made with coconut milk, however. The soap I've made with coconut milk has turned out nice and white, even though I never put soap in the fridge or freezer.

So, this actually makes the most sense to me. I had taken the mold out of the freezer because it looked wonderful, but when I checked on it a few hours later, I realized it was way too soft and some oil was floating on the surface, so I placed the mold back into the freezer. The white stuff wasn't there until this point now that I think of it.

 

[AliOop]

Soda ash on soap often looks like a thin layer of white dust, but it can form large, obvious crystals if conditions are right. My guess is freezing the soap during saponification is the reason for this type of crystal formation.

Agreed, the citric acid in the lime juice may have contributed, as well.

I was able to try out the end piece a day after I did not get zapped since it was more sample-sized, and the lather was perfect. The bars have hardened, and the one I tried feels great on my skin.

That's great news!

For future, we do have a recipe forum where you can post a recipe for comments before you try making it. Be ready for a range of different opinions but also read those answers carefully. They will contain a lot of solid advice about how to build a good recipe.

The main thing is to learn the purpose of every ingredient, AND how it affects all the other ingredients. For instance, as pointed out above, lime juice contains citric acid. That is going to react with your NaOH so there is less of it to saponify the oils. That in turn increases your superfat, and can also increase the chance of some crystallization on top of your soap.

That is just one basic soaping principle to learn, and there are many, many more! We are always happy to help, but you can do a lot of self-help by using the search bar (in the upper corner of each page) to search through the many threads here that have great explanations about things. For instance, put "lime juice" into that search bar, and then read some of the threads that are pulled up.

EDIT: When I posted this response, I didn't see your latest post which says this: when I checked on it a few hours later, I realized it was way too soft and some oil was floating on the surface.

That means your soap was separating. Next time you see something like that, please ask us what to do. Putting it back in the freezer wasn't the solution.

 

[Delon]

Agreed, the citric acid in the lime juice may have contributed, as well.


That's great news!

For future, we do have a recipe forum where you can post a recipe for comments before you try making it. Be ready for a range of different opinions but also read those answers carefully. They will contain a lot of solid advice about how to build a good recipe.

The main thing is to learn the purpose of every ingredient, AND how it affects all the other ingredients. For instance, as pointed out above, lime juice contains citric acid. That is going to react with your NaOH so there is less of it to saponify the oils. That in turn increases your superfat, and can also increase the chance of some crystallization on top of your soap.

That is just one basic soaping principle to learn, and there are many, many more! We are always happy to help, but you can do a lot of self-help by using the search bar (in the upper corner of each page) to search through the many threads here that have great explanations about things. For instance, put "lime juice" into that search bar, and then read some of the threads that are pulled up.

EDIT: When I posted this response, I didn't see your latest post which says this: when I checked on it a few hours later, I realized it was way too soft and some oil was floating on the surface.

That means your soap was separating. Next time you see something like that, please ask us what to do. Putting it back in the freezer wasn't the solution.

Thank you for your explanation. I wasn't a member here until I had already made the soap or I definitely would have asked.

I just looked up separation, and it doesn't look like what I saw. I'm going to watch a few videos on this to understand it more. I just thought I took it out of the freezer too early because it had only been 5-6 hours in the freezer.

 

[AliOop]

Thank you for your explanation. I wasn't a member here until I had already made the soap or I definitely would have asked.

I just looked up separation, and it doesn't look like what I saw. I'm going to watch a few videos on this to understand it more. I just thought I took it out of the freezer too early because it had only been 5-6 hours in the freezer.

No worries, we all started out somewhere in our soaping journey. I had soaped for many years before I found this forum, and promptly learned that a few things I thought were facts were in fact myths - some of them even dangerous. But apparently like Mr. Magoo (or more accurately, Mrs. Magoo), somehow I'd managed to stumble along without harming self or others.

Anyway, you are here now, and we are happy to help.

 

[Ekuzo]

This is only the second batch of soap I've made, so I'm still learning. I've seen people use water and milk where they add the milk in with their oils (lye solution made with water).
I used soap calc.

There was no lye left in the solution. I stirred until I didn't feel any lye left in the solution.

I followed a video from YouTube where the creator makes all-natural soaps.

My advice would be to keep it simple next time. Learn what does what to avoid unpleasant surprises. This time your soap turned out fine, but with fewer variables there's less that can go wrong. For example, make a couple of batches with only 3 oils and plain water to get comfortable with the process, and later, once you know more - you can try different stuff, by changing 1 variable at a time, there's nothing wrong in taking baby steps. And don't follow other people's recipes blindly at the early stages - that can and will mislead you sometimes. Always ask 'why' and 'how'.

All things considered, the soap looks great!

 

[Delon]

My advice would be to keep it simple next time. Learn what does what to avoid unpleasant surprises. This time your soap turned out fine, but with fewer variables there's less that can go wrong. For example, make a couple of batches with only 3 oils and plain water to get comfortable with the process, and later, once you know more - you can try different stuff, by changing 1 variable at a time, there's nothing wrong in taking baby steps. And don't follow other people's recipes blindly at the early stages - that can and will mislead you sometimes. Always ask 'why' and 'how'.

All things considered, the soap looks great!

I am very ambitious when learning new things. Sometimes I get a little ahead of myself! I will try to keep my next recipe simple. On a good note, my second batch only took 45 minutes compared to 1.5 hours for my first batch haha.

 

[Ekuzo]

I am very ambitious when learning new things. Sometimes I get a little ahead of myself! I will try to keep my next recipe simple. On a good note, my second batch only took 45 minutes compared to 1.5 hours for my first batch haha.

Well, if something works well for you it's not exactly wrong and you can always change the process in the future - keep experimenting and see what you like, at least we now know you're hooked on the hobby

 

[dmcgee5034]

This is only the second batch of soap I've made, so I'm still learning. I've seen people use water and milk where they add the milk in with their oils (lye solution made with water).

I didn’t see a comment or tip to your reply about the milk being included with the total of oils that @Ekuzo prompted you for. Wanted to pop in to say you are correct that many people add their milks to the oils before then adding the lye & water/liquid, but it is important to note that you don’t count the milk as an oil in your oils calculations.
Calculate your various oils/fats to be 100%, and then the milk is counted as some or all of the liquid.

 

[Delon]

I didn’t see a comment or tip to your reply about the milk being included with the total of oils that @Ekuzo prompted you for. Wanted to pop in to say you are correct that many people add their milks to the oils before then adding the lye & water/liquid, but it is important to note that you don’t count the milk as an oil in your oils calculations.
Calculate your various oils/fats to be 100%, and then the milk is counted as some or all of the liquid.

Thank you for this!

 

[Ekuzo]

I didn’t see a comment or tip to your reply about the milk being included with the total of oils that @Ekuzo prompted you for. Wanted to pop in to say you are correct that many people add their milks to the oils before then adding the lye & water/liquid, but it is important to note that you don’t count the milk as an oil in your oils calculations.
Calculate your various oils/fats to be 100%, and then the milk is counted as some or all of the liquid.

Just wanted to leave this here in case anyone is interested.

You can add the milk as part of the oil %, but the math is completely different in that case. One needs to calculate how much fat the milk in the recipe contains and add the weight of the fat only - SMF calc has that option, I think others do too. If you're using store bought milk it's easy to calculate that by checking the fat % on the box. In case you're using milk that doesn't come with that info (from your animals, or a farm) - well, not so easy to come with the correct number unless you have laboratory equipment.

The same method applies for using dehydrated milk, you'll have to manually calculate the fat content (and do the math with the added water in mind, because the producers give the fat % of the already hydrated milk, not the powder alone).

Could be kinda troublesome tbh, in most cases as long as your SF is low enough (and/or the milk is low in fat), you don't need to bother doing that - but it's an option nevertheless. I did it the first time I made milk soap, never bothered with it ever since - so there's that.

But yeah, you don't add milk (calculated as full/partial liquid) with the oils %, only the fat from it - if you really want/need to, for some reason lol