What Do You Think of This? (No trace, no gel.)

[alchemy_cake]

So, I've been taking my time learning about soap making, and as I have a kindle I decided to browse the ebooks about soap crafting. I found one, highly rated, on sale for $0.99. So, of course, I bought it! And it's really a very nice little book, informative, concise, and newbie-friendly. However, the author addresses what she says are some myths in soap making, I wanted to get the opinions of some experienced soapers regarding them.

The first is that she says that soap does not need to be mixed until one gets trace. Apparently, with handheld mixers, this isn't required, because the lye and oils get thoroughly blended together well before that point. (She goes on to say that with hand mixing, you do indeed need to go until trace is reached.) I'd not heard of that before, but it seems believable.

The second, which I find stranger, considering how important it seems to many soapers, is that there is basically no such thing as a 'gel stage'. To quote her, "Temperature during the setting period has little or nothing to do with soap setting." The only thing that warmth apparently does is prevents the formation of a "thin rind... that you can trim off". Yet many people clearly find that it does make a difference. Perhaps I've been overestimating how important it is, and it truly doesn't matter?

Thanks for your advice and opinions!

 

[coffeetime]

She's full of hooey. When stick blending you still have to reach at least emulsion or the fats and lye/water will separate in the mold.

And gel is a real thing. When the soap reaches a temp of 160-170 degrees, it will become a translucent gel, even if it was an opaque soft solid before. (As long as saponification is not complete)

Scientific Soapmaking by Dunn had an excellent explanation of the process.

 

[Obsidian]

The no gel is definitely hooey, soap does have a very defined gel stage when it hits certain temps. Soap does not need to gel to set up though.

The part about reaching trace is kinda true. If you get full emulsion which is a stage where the oils and lye no longer separate then you don't have to stir anymore, the soap will set up fine. Emulsion can be hard for some people to spot though so its always better to reach trace before pouring to prevent fail.

Best advice I can give you, delete that book and find another or better yet, just ask on here.

 

[Meganmischke]

Can I ask the name of this book?

 

[alchemy_cake]

Thanks for your input, everyone! I'm thinking that she might be partially correct, like Obsidian said. However, I think that until I'm experienced, it's better safe than sorry for me. I'll stick with the tried and true for now. Thanks for the recommendation, coffeetime. Dunn's book does look good! It's not available for kindle, though, so I'll have to wait until I can buy the paperback.

Meganmischke, the book is "Smart Soapmaking: The Simple Guide to Making Traditional Handmade Soap Quickly, Safely, and Reliably", by Anne L. Watson. Besides those two bits I mentioned, everything else seems to mesh with what I've learned from other sources, but there might be more little things that I overlooked in my inexperience.

 

[Meganmischke]

Interesting, I thought her books came highly rated? Not to say she is exactly wrong but it seems misleading. Not so good for beginners. Thumbs up for double checking your doubts. I agree 100% with Obsidian.

 

[Jaccart789]

I think you should stop reading that book.

 

[alchemy_cake]

It was highly rated. And it was very readable, and very clear. It might be a matter of different methodology, but I'll stick to the regular way for now.

Jaccart789, it's too late! I read it ALL! And most of it was pretty good.

Honestly though, if it lead to asking questions and getting good answers it was worth the dollar. And it didn't diminish my desire to make soap one bit.

I'm glad there are people I can turn to for answers - finding a community of helpful and knowledgeable people before the Internet came around must have been nearly impossible!

 

[coffeetime]

I'm glad there are people I can turn to for answers - finding a community of helpful and knowledgeable people before the Internet came around must have been nearly impossible!

Yes, yes it was. And there weren't very many books out there on it either.

 

[My Mountain Soaps]

i have to smile because as soon as you said "Myths in soap making" i knew exactly which book you were talking about, the same Anne watson i read when i started soaping. The same one that caused me to ask the very same questions you asked, and these wonderful people here steered me in the right way. good for you double checking what you have learned

 

[Dorymae]

I am going to say that the way she worded it, she is correct for the most part.

The first is that she says that soap does not need to be mixed until one gets trace. Apparently, with handheld mixers, this isn't required, because the lye and oils get thoroughly blended together well before that point. (She goes on to say that with hand mixing, you do indeed need to go until trace is reached.) I'd not heard of that before, but it seems believable.

This is absolutely true. I seldom reach trace before beginning to pour - what I do reach is emulsion.


To quote her, "Temperature during the setting period has little or nothing to do with soap setting." The only thing that warmth apparently does is prevents the formation of a "thin rind... that you can trim off".

This is partially true - soap will set with or without gel. The warmth does cause a thin rind when you get a full gel, I'm not sure if it is any worse with ungelled - I never noticed- however it is not the only thing it does. It also makes colors much more vivid for one.

 

[wetshavingproducts]

I think you're misunderstanding her. The quote you posted does not suggest there is no gel stage, but that it's not necessary, which is not disputed on this board.

 

[lenarenee]

I think you're misunderstanding her. The quote you posted does not suggest there is no gel stage, but that it's not necessary, which is not disputed on this board.

That's how I took it when I read the book. Never got the impression it's about gel. I found her writing to quite awkward in places.

 

[alchemy_cake]

wetshavingproducts: I admit that's possible! I think you're right in that what she was trying to say is that she didn't believe there really was any use for gel stage as encouraged by keeping the mold warm etc. Like lenarenee suggested my confusion was probably due to awkward writing, combined with my own knack for misunderstanding. Anyway, since that's true, then I'm glad I clarified. I wasn't entirely certain what exactly she was trying to say before, but it makes sense now.

She never mentioned the effect of heat on colours or anything. Maybe she felt that was something that people should experiment with after they master basic soap making?

 

[LunaSkye]

The first part of what the author said makes some sense only because I made a few soaps that did not reach trace (they are still curing and developing nicely). As for the second part, I can verily say that there is a gel stage. I have achieved it many times and I can tell you that there is a difference in the soap's appearance when you let it gel as oppose to preventing it.

 

[coffeetime]

I haven't read this ebook, but I have read some of her other books and I find her soapmaking advice to be somewhat out of date and rather general. I prefer details and current research. So try the Dunn book if you can. It's a bit dry in spots but very informative about the science of soap.

 

[Obsidian]

I found this to be the best free/cheap soaping book for kindle.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HKMN9RW/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Just to add my tuppence in.

Trace - she is right. But as others have said, knowing when it is mixed enough before trace is tricky, which is why most of us go for trace.

Gel, not needed for the process. I wonder if the rind that she mentions is ash - in which case, I do find gelled soaps tend to have little or no ash. There was a picture of my partially gelled GMOH with ash all over the ungelled parts but none at all on the gelled

 

[alchemy_cake]

Obsidian: Thanks, that's awesome! I downloaded it right away!

And the Dunn book is on my wishlist, waiting for my next paycheque.

I need to be careful, or the next thing I know I'll be buying an immersion blender and spending all my money on blocks of butters and my partner will be waking up in the middle of the night to find me muttering to myself over bowls of batter...

TEG: I honestly am not sure what she meant. It's possible? Anyway, I don't mind ash. I actually find it rather pretty!

 

[PuddinAndPeanuts]

I liked the Anne Watson books just because she makes it SO straightforward. It REALLY took a lot of the trepidation that I had out of the equation. After I read her books, it was like 'okay! I really CAN do this!'.