What can I use in place of palm products?

[Marya]

Hi there -

I got really into making soap and candles in 2004 and then stopped and want to get back into it (so excited!). I know a lot more now about palm than I did back then (and the damage it does to the rain forests and wildlife).

I have a lot of re-learning to do in order to start into these crafts again but I want to start out on the right foot if I can help it. Can you recommend any and all products that might be a good (equally good or better) substitute for palm oil and palm kernel oil?

I know I can use lard or tallow. That's the only thing I can think of, besides olive oil being good and hard if left to cure long enough (is olive oil indeed as good as palm or tallow, if cured a long time, re. its properties?). I'm not a vegetarian but we only eat organic/free-range meat so I don't mind using animal products IF gotten from a free-range farm. I expect I may have to pay more to avoid palm, but I'm in this for fun and luxurious bars as gifts, not to sell.

Did I miss anything that you can recommend? Any places you recommend?

Thanks very much!
Marya

 

[dagmar88]

Lard and tallow are the best substitutes for palm. Or you could go for sustainable palm. They are basically "fillers", but not in a bad way.
They'll give your soap body. Olive oil is nice, but in higher quantities, it tends to get slimy and it needs a really long cure.

Palm kernal oil gives large, fluffy lather and hardness. It can be replaced with coconut oil and babassu.

I eat organic/free range meat too, but I like the idea of not being wasteful and using every bit of the animal.

 

[Marya]

Dagmar, thank you! Were you on thedishforum.com years ago? I remember "knowing" someone by that name (getting to know a fellow soaper) back in about 2004 and the moment I read your name it felt very familiar. Then again you're not the only Dagmar in the world, I realize. I agree about not wasting the animal.

 

[dagmar88]

I've posted once or twice, so it's probably another Dagmar.

 

[Saswede]

I use only vegetable oils and butters, and have never used palm oil, Marya - so there are ways around palm if you want to stick with vegetable oils.

If you're not using palm oil, you can go up a little in the proportion of coconut oil you use to get a harder soap. Or I prefer to use either Shea, mango or cocoa butter, or a combination of 2 of these, along with at least 40% olive oil ..... Together with RBO, argan oil, sweet almond and a few other "special" oils or additives, you can make a lovely moisturizing bar that's plenty hard.


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[eleraine]

You can sub palm products with butters like shea, cocoa or if it's more exotic, kokum makes a pretty hard bar. I use sustainable palm because it's local (I'm from M'sia), it's plentiful, affordable and in terms of eco concerns, it's cheaper than flying in butters (refined shea butter costs up to RM200/USD62 per kg).

Alternatively, some people add in beeswax to harden the bar.

 

[judymoody]

Shea, Cocoa Butter and Avocado oil, in combination can mimic the fatty acid composition of palm oil.

 

[Marya]

Oops! Oh well, nice to meet you anyway!

I've posted once or twice, so it's probably another Dagmar.

 

[Marya]

Thanks Saswede! I'm looking forward to opening up the books (sort of - ugh!) and remembering all these details. I not only don't want to use palm oil but I also don't want to use palm kernel oil. I'm sure you're right about many alternatives resulting in equally luxurious bars. Can't wait to experiment! I think I'd like to come up with two batches using two very different ingredients as the palm substitutes, then make them a day or two apart from each other so that I can really compare them when they finish curing. Gifts galore!

 

[Marya]

Eleraine,

That makes sense since you're from there. I'm concerned though because all those in the know claim that there's really no evidence that sustainable palm really exists, as many other products claiming to be sustainable in fact do/are. They (several sources - not just a few) say it's really just a marketing ploy in the case of palm specifically, which is very disappointing. At least 6 months ago that was the case, worldwide. I imagine how many people with good intentions buy these products thinking they're helping, you know? I hate to be a bubble-burster. It's used in just about everything and very hard to avoid however if I'm going to actually create something from scratch, I might as well make that difference if I can, you know? I was SO disappointed when I discovered all this myself but it's worth sharing when one considers the severe damage it causes. If you google articles (not retailers) you'll see what I'm talking about - unless something has changed in the last 6 months that is.

I'm intrigued by beeswax and also soy wax. I believe soy is another environmental concern these days as well as a health concern however unlike palm, they do actually sell sustainable soy.

This was an interesting list of hardening options, shown as results from single-oil bars of soap:

http://www.zensoaps.com/singleoil.htm

 

[Marya]

Thanks Judymoody. I use all 3 of those in my soaps so that's good to know.

Shea, Cocoa Butter and Avocado oil, in combination can mimic the fatty acid composition of palm oil.

 

[eleraine]

Marya, there is a council in M'sia dedicated to the furtherance of sustainable palm oil development.

It *is* a huge thing for us - to have palm oil production as an industry - because 1) it supplies people in the lower income groups with some form of employment, 2) it is a cheap oil that people in the lower income groups can consume (extra virgin olive oil can retail for up to RM50/liter or USD15/liter whereas palm oil goes for RM3/liter or USD0.90/liter) and people here do consume a lot of oil (deep frying, etc) and 3) it's used to make shortening here and other commercially available products.

The MPOC (http://www.mpoc.org.my/) has a few papers on the claims that many people make stating that palm oil in Malaysia is not sustainable. One of them involves the forestry industry in Sabah/Sarawak (on the Borneo Island) and the claim that there are no natural forests left in Malaysia. This is a blatant lie. Most of the two states is still covered in forests - in fact, 60% of Sarawak is nothing but forests. The two states is pretty undeveloped for the most part (which was an issue during the last general election because people there are still going through things like taking a boat to school, walking 3-6 hours to get to the nearest road because everything is a jungle literally - I have friends who work with the Flying Doctors that service the highlands and forests in those two states).

We also don't employ methods like slash and burn (which we have a problem each year with our wonderful neighbour who does the same thing and clogs up the air with haze, etc). =.=

Personally, I think what would be better is to buy local as much as you can in order to minimize your carbon footprint. I know of a Spanish soapmaker who gets her EVOO from the local producer instead of buying cheaper imported oil, her jojoba/apricot/pomegrate oils from a local producer, gets her bags sewn by the local co-op, her printing done by a printer who lives around the corner, etc. But of course, this is a business that she runs. Am not too sure how hobbyist soapmakers would approach this matter apart from avoiding palm oil.

 

[Saswede]

I agree that we should try to source locally as far as possible to reduce the environmental impact of our products, Eleraine. So in your place I'd probably also use locally made palm oil if I was confident that it was from a sustainable source.

But I agree with Marya that for those of us who would like to see an end to deforestation and habitat destruction (for orangutans and a multitude of other less "emotive" species) in Asia and South America, it's difficult to be sure that what we're buying is in fact sustainably produced. And the issue has not improved in the last few months - in fact there was an article in the Guardian just a few days ago about how RSPO members are responsible for much of the deforestation and burning in Indonesia:
http://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/tighter-standards-palm-oil-deforestation
Based on what I researched when I started soaping, the greatest issue in palm oil production is the complexity of the supply chain - many palm producers are tiny family businesses who sell their product to the refineries/co-ops. And while some small producers are responsible in their production, others are still clearing forests to plant new palm. Oil from both types of producers are combined by the refineries, who do not adequately check the source - and if the refinery is a member of RSPO, their oil will be given the "sustainable" label, even though not all of the palm oil that they process is sustainably produced. (Equally, some sustainably produced oil is not labeled as such - so this can work in both ways.)

Because of the supply chain complexity, it's almost impossible for our suppliers in the US and Europe to know whether palm oil was really sustainably produced - so I prefer not to drive demand, because like Marya I believe that even individuals can make a difference through their choices ...... However, using palm products or not is something that each person has to research and decide for themselves - so I don't mean to judge anyone who does use palm products.


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[eleraine]

Yes, I get what you mean. We have the same problem (sustainable labelling) with organic products and essential oils...

 

[Marya]

Eleraine,

I think that's a great idea - using as much locally as you can. In fact - I don't know if this is a silly or unrealistic idea or not but my dad and his sisters bought a farm in Southern Oregon and they're growing olive trees there. I think to make olive oil, I keep forgetting to ask (or maybe it's just grow olives - or maybe both). Isn't THAT a great idea of buying locally?! Thing is, I have no idea how many years it takes to grow the trees before one can expect a decent crop. How COOL is that though eh? The idea of being able to get it from not just a family farm but OUR family farm! Not really mine though - who knows if they'll be stingy about it. On the other hand I hardly ever make soap so I'm sure they can cough some up.

It's not easy to know who to believe when it comes to this issue of whether or not there are sustainable palm products, but I think there's a lot of reasons people would lie and say palm is sustainable when it isn't, whereas I don't think there are as many sound reasons for lying that it's not sustainable if it is, if that makes sense. Experience shows me I have more reason to believe those who speak out against well-documented destruction than to believe those who serve corporations and claim it's all a bunch of over-exaggerated hype. I'm sure that from some perspectives on the ground and given a period relatively frozen in time and examined there are still a lot of forests. But I don't think that will last at this rate, quite honestly.

As for producing or purchasing unsustainable products in the name of supporting and defending lower income populations who may rely on said corporations to put food on their tables... that's a tough one. A really tough one. I struggle with this because I think there can be a lot of snobbery with regard to making healthy choices these days - healthy for bodies and the planet - because often it's the privileged elites living in bubbles of comfort who are in the position to be so choosy and self-righteous. Which somehow feels pretty backward to me. Reminds me of a line from the song "All My Trials": "If religion were a thing that money could buy...the rich would live and the poor would die." Substitute religion with 'health' and the 'if' is no longer needed cause it's the reality of the situation today. You gotta be rich to be (to buy) healthy these days. I know a lot of people who would love to be able to shop at the high-quality, politically-correct organic foods grocery stores but simply can't afford it so end up at the big box nightmare stores loaded with processed foods full of chemicals. It's wrong and so sick and dysfunctional, and the whole system needs to be turned on its head.

Even in the name of people who need the work though, I can't accept something that's as monstrous as the palm industry is, when it's causing so much damage to the forests, endangered wildlife and indeed the planet. I don't think it has to be people OR the Earth/all its inhabitants, because from my perspective, it's one in the same and we're all connected. Living in the "age of disconnection," we're all more disconnected to each other and ourselves than ever, though on the surface are more connected than ever due to our electronic gadgets calling out to us 24/7 like sirens. Likewise being more discontent than ever as we keep trying to fill the ever-expanding voids inside ourselves in these silly ways that we do. My point is that I don't think people any longer realize how much we humans do actually rely on our planet being healthy. Whether humans or the environment including wildlife, it doesn't have to be solely one or the other that are advocated for and yet as we're now all so divided politically - more than ever - people seem to have chosen one corner or the other (again, as if they're not connected). You know, the "screw humans" types (funny, since they're humans, but you know what I mean) or the "screw those who believe in climate change" types (recently replacing the "screw tree-huggers" types). Action is required to make it so that we can improve in both areas and sometimes the only way action can happen when fighting such huge powers that be is to raise a ruckus and boycott where necessary.

Well, hell, I'm sorry I just wrote so much. Time to get off my SOAPbox and stop ranting. For some reading this (if they didn't immediately give up after seeing how much I had to say!) I may be preaching to the choir while for others, they're probably wondering how many glasses of wine I had before writing on here and they'd be right to wonder!!!

 

[eleraine]

Hahahaha...it's okay. Sometimes I think it's important to know your principles and policies as well as direction - hobbyist or otherwise. And it's good to garner opinions from other people too! So really, sharing is always welcomed!

 

[Saswede]

Definitely choir!

But the issue isn't quite as straightforward as we may think ...... So while I don't use palm oil in my soaps, and I chose not to buy products with palm oil until there is a more trustworthy way of determining which is sustainable and which isn't, I do realize that that there are other angles to look at on this issue. Which is why I prefer not to judge people who've made a different choice than I've made. (But I do hope that talking about the issues will get more people to make an active rather than a passive choice, based on their own situation/circumstances.)

The first is to eleraine's point about small family businesses, who can only survive by producing palm oil, and who have no other source of income (or even prospect of another revenue stream).

And the second is related to the productivity of palm plantations - because I've also read that the "return" or yield from palm is significantly higher than almost any other oil. This means that for each acre of palm plantation, you'd need double or more acreage of any other oil-producing crop to produce the same volume of oil. So a complete boycott of palm oil is also not a great option, because we could see greater destruction of natural vegetation to produce rapeseed (canola), coconut or olive oil, for example. However, having said that, the reality is that farming of crops to produce many of these alternative oils could be undertaken in existing agricultural areas - which removes the threat of deforestation and loss of wildlife habitat.


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[Lidyax]

Yes, I get what you mean. We have the same problem (sustainable labelling) with organic products and essential oils...

(Btw, my country's pesky neighbour is Indonesia...the one who lovesssss to clog up the air every year coz of their slash and burn activities. Which unfortunately is the cheapest way (for the poor farmers) of clearing land...sigh.)

Please leave my country out of this. While I admit we have our problems, but Malaysia isn't exactly blameless. However, let's not point fingers in international forum shall we?


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[StarBrown]

Disclosure: I use Palm Oil

It seems to me, that this "no palm oil" thing is a trend--the new hip cause. A lot of people are jumping on board, without really knowing what is going on. There are some serious concerns about how some oils are produced, but it doesn't apply to all. And to say that you don't really know what is the good palm and what is not is only true for oils from specific regions. To my understanding, there are responsibly produced palm oils available from Africa and South America. For example, Spectrum Organics sources their vegetable shortening from small farms in Colombia, and have documented their process. Many of the West African palm oil producers are just using the existing growth; there are a few areas that are expanding to plantations, but there is no environmental impact on the scale of what's happening in Asia. (I've never used Palm Oils from Malaysia and other Asian countries, because I had other sources.)

I think it is unfair to wholesale write off palm oil (and all of us who use it) because of activity in Southeast Asia. There are many other sources of palm oil that do not cause environmental detriment and provide a vital source of income for many.

Additionally, I am so irritated by people who go around touting that their products are palm oil free and trying to one up those of us who do use palm, without even understanding that there are other sources/people who produce palm oil without endangering orangutan habitats.

Ok, I'm off my soap box. Carry on.

 

[Marya]

Couldn't agree more. Thank you for not being sore about my long rant. I knew you'd understand and I think we see eye to eye on most of it, not that it really matters! :crazy:

Hahahaha...it's okay. Sometimes I think it's important to know your principles and policies as well as direction - hobbyist or otherwise. And it's good to garner opinions from other people too! So really, sharing is always welcomed!