Refer to this post for the information on the tincture: https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/whats-the-madder-with-my-madder.75340/page-2#post-775161
What’s the madder with my madder?
- Thread starter Mobjack Bay
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The promised side-by-side comparison of the layered soap with the freshly made soap on the top and soaps after time on the bottom.
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Wow! This is amazing research on your part! Great job! I love the idea of coloring the white clay with plant tinctures! I'm new enough that I haven't tried any of this yet, but based on what I've been reading, greens do not like to stick around very long. Wondering if coloring clay with greens from an alcohol tincture would have the same results. Also, was wondering about using vinegar to extract the color and then mix with the lye. Maybe I will try that with my next batch!
Have you tried greens or just the madder?
I haven’t tried the green pigment in alcohol, but I think @szaza may have at some point. The challenge with chlorophyll, the green pigment in most plants, is that it is not very stable compared with other plant pigments. I did write about it somewhere and will try to remember to add that link when I find it. The pigment in Spirulina is called phycocyanin. From what I can tell, it is more resistant to fading compared with chlorophyll.Wow! This is amazing research on your part! Great job! I love the idea of coloring the white clay with plant tinctures! I'm new enough that I haven't tried any of this yet, but based on what I've been reading, greens do not like to stick around very long. Wondering if coloring clay with greens from an alcohol tincture would have the same results. Also, was wondering about using vinegar to extract the color and then mix with the lye. Maybe I will try that with my next batch!
Have you tried greens or just the madder?
Here’s the link to the thread on my Matcha tea experiments:
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/matcha-tea-soap.75493/
Oh, didn't know that about Spirulina. Good to know. Now I wish I hadn't just hit submit on my herb order.
Will have to grab it next time. I did grab some kelp and a few other greens I don't normally use. Will be trying them once I get my order. Thanks for all your research and sharing what you've learned! Reading all of this has been very inspirational! I will happily update with anything I discover.
There are some good threads on using natural colorants that have been posted in the last year. To find them, use the search feature in this forum to search on words like matcha, Spirulina, moringa, indigo, annatto, turmeric, etc, but then refine the search by using the “search again” option and selecting “most recent” instead of “relevant”. The recent threads will come up nearish to the top, or at least in the first few pages. Natural colorants are finicky, so I usually stick with small batches when I’m experimenting. Have fun and be sure to post photosOh, didn't know that about Spirulina. Good to know. Now I wish I hadn't just hit submit on my herb order.
Will have to grab it next time. I did grab some kelp and a few other greens I don't normally use. Will be trying them once I get my order. Thanks for all your research and sharing what you've learned! Reading all of this has been very inspirational! I will happily update with anything I discover.
The clays soaked in tincture are drying at the moment. I hope to use them in soap this weekend or next week
What plants are you using szaza? I'm trying alfalfa, parsley, and sage.
Doing the same process Mobjack used with the madder root. 50/50 isopropyl alcohol with 3 tbs of herbs in 3 seperate jars. Also trying one jar with parsley and vinegar (5%). I let the alcohol tinctures sit covered overnight (12 hrs), added 4 tsp white kaolin clay to each of the 3 jars and stirred. I'm leaving uncovered while I work and will check/stir throughout the day. The vinegar infusion I warmed to 110, added the parsley and stirred. Left it sit overnight as well and kept it covered. Will also setup a heated oil infusion later this morning to use with one of the 3 herbs.
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There are some good threads on using natural colorants that have been posted in the last year. To find them, use the search feature in this forum to search on words like matcha, Spirulina, moringa, indigo, annatto, turmeric, etc, but then refine the search by using the “search again” option and selecting “most recent” instead of “relevant”. The recent threads will come up nearish to the top, or at least in the first few pages. Natural colorants are finicky, so I usually stick with small batches when I’m experimenting. Have fun and be sure to post photos
I think I found the one you are referring to Mobjack! Looks like czaza is already working on other colors.
I did spirulina, annatto, moringa, alkanet and wheatgrass and compared them to french green and pink clays. My soap is in the mold as we speak
I used a bit of a different method for making my isopropanol or ethanol tinctures.. for more info see this thread
I used a bit of a different method for making my isopropanol or ethanol tinctures.. for more info see this thread
I did spirulina, annatto, moringa, alkanet and wheatgrass and compared them to french green and pink clays. My soap is in the mold as we speak
I used a bit of a different method for making my isopropanol or ethanol tinctures.. for more info see this thread
Thanks! Just finished reading through that one! Great info and love your experiments. Looks like my little one from last night/this morning will be a little weak.
Based on the experiments by both you and Mobjack, a long tincture based extraction combined with a long soak with clay produces the best long term results. Maybe 2 weeks tincture extraction and 1 week clay? I'm guessing that the clay will dull the color somewhat, but over time will prove to be a better option. Just a guess/assumption on my part.
Does that mean we shouldn’t gel soap made with madder ?
The soaps in the bottom photo in post #89 gelled and I think the colors are good. High temps might cause the color to shift towards the warmer side of the pinks, but it’s definitely worth it to try gelling if you want an intense color. If you soap with madder, I hope you will come back and share your results!
I recently bought Jo Haslauer ‘s ebook on national colorants. I added my Madder Root to my lye water, 1 teaspoon and it gave me a deep maroon color, very pretty.Dang, I just wrote a post that vanished due to clumsy fingers
Found this at Mad Micas: Madder powder is scratchy and produces speckles when added to soap at trace, but infusing in oil for a few day eliminates scratchiness and speckles (website).
Dyers use madder and the Dharma Trading website offers a number of prep tips that seem transferable:
“Pro-tip(s): Most natural dyestuffs like to be soaked overnight for some of the darkest shades. We prepped our dyestuffs in a blender with water and let them soak overnight. We used 50% weight of goods for the ground madder and 20% weight of goods for the cochineal. We also strained the dyestuffs and made “tea bags” with some scrap muslin so there wouldn’t be loose floating plant matter when we added our yarns. Check out these great videos from Kimberly Baxter Packwood for more tips and tricks to get the most color out of your dyestuffs:
Prepping madder root”
Edited to add that in the video the instructions are to heat the madder in water, very slowly to “coax out the red colors” otherwise you will get oranges, yellows and brown. She said to bring it to a simmer over 1-2 hours.
“Pro-tip: Keep the madder below 200 degrees, around 180 is best. Any hotter and the red dye compounds will break down and your color will shift towards yellow and orange.”
“Something fun to try:
Madder will shift color as you change the pH of the water. Try dyeing up some samples in mason jars and vary the pH of the water with a little citric acid or soda ash. A lower acid pH (citric acid) will shift the color more orange, and higher more alkali pH (soda ash) will shift the color to bluer/darker hues.”
Has anyone achieved a blue soap this way?
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atiz
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I have kind of forgotten about this, but I used madder infusion in one of my first salt bars. The infusion was a cold infusion in avocado oil, which was used in 10% of the total batch.
I was a beginner soaper and it was super weird, I was very upset with it at first. The madder infusion was beautiful maroon, then pink when added the lye. And then it turned blue/grey.
Here's the soap when cut; and when it turned back into pink, after about a week.
(I still have one bar of this batch, and will check how the color is doing -- but right now all is packed up in moving boxes and who knows where they are... This was made in Jan. 2019, and was still pink the last time I used one, sometime in the fall).
I was a beginner soaper and it was super weird, I was very upset with it at first. The madder infusion was beautiful maroon, then pink when added the lye. And then it turned blue/grey.
Here's the soap when cut; and when it turned back into pink, after about a week.
(I still have one bar of this batch, and will check how the color is doing -- but right now all is packed up in moving boxes and who knows where they are... This was made in Jan. 2019, and was still pink the last time I used one, sometime in the fall).
Was that one tsp ppo? I have that ebook and found it very useful for her advice on when the best option is adding the colorant to the lye water versus making an oil infusion
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I use madder root at a rate of 6g powdered root to 600g of oils. I make a tea with the water I am intending to use for the lye, literally pour on boiling water from the kettle, leave to cool, then sieve out the powder through a fine mesh (I use a jelly bag) then add the sodium hydroxide. I either make a little bit more to start with or just add a bit of extra water after to bring the quantity back up to the recipe as you always lose a bit of water sieving out the powder. I used to add the madder root powder to the lye water but felt I didn't want to sieve it out of caustic lye water, it's easier and safer to sieve it out before you add the sodium hydroxide pl, you can use your fingers to squeeze out the last drops of colour. I didn't notice any real colour difference when I changed to removing the madder root before adding the lye. I usually achieve a strong pink similar to the pic in Atiz's post above. I have never had it go grey. It usually comes out raspberry pink then mellows a bit with cure.
I have also put the powder in the batter at mixing stage. It is slightly scratchy but the effect is nice. You start with a white soap with pink specks which slowly gets pinker as it cures but the specks always stay a bit pinker than the rest of the soap.
I have also put the powder in the batter at mixing stage. It is slightly scratchy but the effect is nice. You start with a white soap with pink specks which slowly gets pinker as it cures but the specks always stay a bit pinker than the rest of the soap.
I’ve had a jar of madder powder and olive oil in the frig for maybe 6 months now. I shake it occasionally. When the powder settles, the oil is the same color it was on the day I added it. I can’t imagine that it would make pink soap. I have tried and adopted Julia’s method and proportions for most of my madder soaps. It’s the easiest and makes a pretty pink.
