Using a coffee urn for masterbatching oils?

[RDiehl6690]

Hello,
I have recently been experimenting with masterbatching my oils. It has been working well and really speeding up my soap making. I am currently using a wax melting pot to do so. The problem is it is only a 5L pot and does not hold enough to do my large molds in one go. In looking for a larger vessel to melt my oils I stumbled across these coffee urns/water boilers from webstraunt store. They are 5 gallons which would be plently and they have adjustable temperature control. (Says min is 120, although the dial appears to go lower). Has anyone tried something like this? Is there any reason why this wouldnt work? I would love to buy a dedicated soap making melting pot but I am not in a position to spend that much money right now and this seems like a workable alternative. I was also toying with the idea of using an empty 5 gallon oil bucket with some type of heater (immersion or band) but it seems that it would take a long time to heat up, plus I wouldnt be able to turn it on as I put my oils in to melt them. Any advice or ideas are appreciated. Thanks!

 

[AliOop]

Wow, what a creative idea. Since you are only doing oils in this, and not lye solution, it seems like it should work.

 

[justsomeguy]

Hello,
I have recently been experimenting with masterbatching my oils. It has been working well and really speeding up my soap making. I am currently using a wax melting pot to do so. The problem is it is only a 5L pot and does not hold enough to do my large molds in one go. In looking for a larger vessel to melt my oils I stumbled across these coffee urns/water boilers from webstraunt store. They are 5 gallons which would be plently and they have adjustable temperature control. (Says min is 120, although the dial appears to go lower). Has anyone tried something like this? Is there any reason why this wouldnt work? I would love to buy a dedicated soap making melting pot but I am not in a position to spend that much money right now and this seems like a workable alternative. I was also toying with the idea of using an empty 5 gallon oil bucket with some type of heater (immersion or band) but it seems that it would take a long time to heat up, plus I wouldnt be able to turn it on as I put my oils in to melt them. Any advice or ideas are appreciated. Thanks!

I have a digiboil wax melter that says it'll hold 9.25 fluid gallons of melted wax. Paid $169 for it I believe. Only tested it to the point of making sure it heats up so far though...

 

[Shirley-D]

It looks good but I have never used one for heating oils. I did have a coffee urn years ago and used it for coffee when entertaining--wished I had kept it. My thoughts are this:

1. Can you clean it easily? My coffee urn had a short open drain/tap at the bottom that was easy to clean with a slender bottle brush, so you are probably ok on that account.
2. Bear in mind that the heating element is all at the bottom so the heat is concentrated there. With a thin liquid like coffee the heat could travel easily throughout the volume of liquid. Thicker oils or fats might get too much heat at the bottom and not enough at the top. You would have to stir it for a while I think.
3. Although the outside is shiny like stainless steel (that's the style of it, the cosmetic look), the inside could be aluminum which you don't want.
4. If the fats/oils are too much and the thing self-destructs, your warranty will be voided and you lose $100.

I hope it works for you, do let us know. I was eyeing my instapot with the keep warm setting. It is big enough for me but I am still using it for cooking, beside, there is no way to grip to pour, too dangerous for me. Maybe someone else can chime in with some experience/wisdom.

 

[dibbles]

Being able to clean it was my first thought. @Shirley-D also raises good points about the inside of the pot being aluminum and the uneven heat distribution. If you decide to try it, please let us know how it works!

 

[BigDog]

Hello, brand new here as of a few minutes ago. Wanted to say that I bought two of the 8 (or 9?) gallon DIGIBOIL pots for my beard butters and balms. I keep my base mix of butters and oils in each and only have to flip a switch and let it melt down, stir and draw what I need for a batch (by weight), then add fragrance, antioxidants and pour. I don’t fill them over 4 gallons but you sure could.
Temp control is good but actual temps runs a little high so experiment and keep at a safe level to not overheat.
These work great for my needs.

 

[Becky1024]

It looks good but I have never used one for heating oils. I did have a coffee urn years ago and used it for coffee when entertaining--wished I had kept it. My thoughts are this:

1. Can you clean it easily? My coffee urn had a short open drain/tap at the bottom that was easy to clean with a slender bottle brush, so you are probably ok on that account.
2. Bear in mind that the heating element is all at the bottom so the heat is concentrated there. With a thin liquid like coffee the heat could travel easily throughout the volume of liquid. Thicker oils or fats might get too much heat at the bottom and not enough at the top. You would have to stir it for a while I think.
3. Although the outside is shiny like stainless steel (that's the style of it, the cosmetic look), the inside could be aluminum which you don't want.
4. If the fats/oils are too much and the thing self-destructs, your warranty will be voided and you lose $100.

I hope it works for you, do let us know. I was eyeing my instapot with the keep warm setting. It is big enough for me but I am still using it for cooking, beside, there is no way to grip to pour, too dangerous for me. Maybe someone else can chime in with some experience/wisdom.

I melted some lard once in my instapot on the “keep warm” setting. It worked but was a weird experience because the lard kept popping as it melted. I think it is because the heating element is on the bottom and the localized heat is too high. Not doing it again! A crockpot works much better.

 

[BigDog]

The picture of my digiboil pots was removed for some reason but wanted to say they are stainless steel inside and out. Temp is controlled digitally and you can set it anywhere you like up to the maximum which is way to high for us. There are two heating elements, selectable, 500w and 1000w, you can select either or both but the 500w selection is perfect. I poke holes in the butter with a 20” stainless whisk that remains in the pot and stir occasionally as it melts. It has never overheated my oils and yes I understand there can be hotspots at the bottom but we are set well below any danger points. Easy to clean too.

Read up on the digiboil pots. I am not a soaper (yet, but want to be) so unsure of your requirements and temp limits but this pot is VERSATILE. They were designed for beer brewing but are widely used in candle making for instance and great for me for butters and oils. They have sped up my production capabilities greatly.

 

[DeeAnna]

The problem with a coffee urn is the heating well is supposed to heat water to boiling so the percolator function works properly. So that well gets pretty hot. I'd be concerned about the fat degrading over time -- even if the overall temp stays reasonably okay, the fat in that well might get pretty toasty. If I would scale up, I'd want a heating system that provided a more even heat.

 

[BigDog]

Apparently my business name and logo was in this pic, my apologies, now edited out. Here is the pic of the Digiboil Pots. All stainless, digital temp control, selectable, and both a 500w and a 1000w element selectable each or both (500w only works for our needs). This thing will gently melt your butters or boil up to 9 gallons of water in a short while. Versatile. Right now I fill to about 4 gallons but can hold 8-9 gallons.
Lots of review videos on these, check them out. These increased my efficiency many times over. I keep my base mix of butters,oils (and beeswax for the BALM POT).
I do beard products but trying to learn soap which is why I am here. Just trying to help if I can.

 

[squidstings]

BigDog, Do those urns' elements make direct contact with the oils/butters? I've recently been warned about Acrolein. Something that's generated from overheating oils/fats ( lots of concern about "cooking" ). The oils/fats I use don't break down into acrolein at the soap-making temperatures I've experienced. But some oils will breakdown at lower temperatures.

And heating elements themselves always get well above the set temperature to achieve the desired temperature at the thermostat. Just some specifics you may want to research for your own safety.

Just learned about the risk, myself, recently. Sorry I don't have more info for you. Too many different oils to look up lol

 

[ScentimentallyYours]

I melted some lard once in my instapot on the “keep warm” setting. It worked but was a weird experience because the lard kept popping as it melted. I think it is because the heating element is on the bottom and the localized heat is too high. Not doing it again! A crockpot works much better.

When my lard “pops” it means there is a small amount of water present in the lard, meaning the weight of the lard will also be off slightly. One was to test the pure fat content of the lard you’re using it to melt a pint or more in a glass container in the microwave. Be sure to cover the container, because water will turn to steam and “pop” or explode through the lard. When completely meted and clear, hold the container up to the light and look for “bubbles” of water on the bottom.

From the microwave - If you see any water, put the container in the refrigerator and wait until the lard is very hard. Remove the lard from the container in a solid block. Drain any water and blot the lard with a paper towel. Save the pure lard for soap, knowing your recipe numbers will be correct.

For large amounts of lard - Warm the lard in a large stock pot until completely clear/transparent, stirring occasionally as it liquifies. When it is completely transparent, let it settle. Do you see water “bubbles” at the bottom of the pot? You can now move most of the lard to another container as long as you don’t disturb the bottom where the water settled. For the lower portion of the pot, you can move the lard/water mix to a smaller container and proceed to separate the water by following instructions above for the microwave. If it’s close to freezing outside, just move the pot outside to solidify the lard. If there are crumbly bits at the bottom of the lard when you remove it from the pot, scrape them off until you reach solid lard. (Crumbly bits will contain water.). Store the solid lard for soap. If motivated, you can process the crumbly lard again in the microwave to remove the last of the water.

Guess how I learned this?

 

[squidstings]

I melted some lard once in my instapot on the “keep warm” setting. It worked but was a weird experience because the lard kept popping as it melted. I think it is because the heating element is on the bottom and the localized heat is too high. Not doing it again! A crockpot works much better.

If you did it with water, I believe it's called "bumping". I might be wrong about the term.

I've been rendering tallow recently. Keep the top of the liquid LOW in the pot! Oil on top doesn't boil, so the steam bubbles have to make their way through the oil. Oil resists this. Sorry I don't have the proper chemistry terms to use, but if you watch, the bubbles stay small below the fat until they coalesce into a bubble big enough to break through the oil this can be very energetic and knock a slow cooker's lid right off if the volume is too high. As the oil comes up to temperature, smaller bubbles will be able to make it through and the "popping" will stop.

I actually put my slow cooker in an old kitty litter tray. Even with the pot only 20% full, the oil still escapes from the bumping. But I haven't had any oil get beyond the litter tray.

 

[BigDog]

The elements are not exposed, I set the temp to 125 for my butter/oil mix and it is never over 145 after stirring so a good ways from scorching anything. Yes, I do realize there will be hot spots but not sure we would ever get to scorching when surrounded my unmelted butter or 4 gallons of cooler temp butters and oils. Have never burnt a butter to my knowledge. Lots of folks use these. Your mileage may vary.
I do keep 20” stainless whisks in the pots permanently. Before I start I smush up the butter and balm to create pathways for the hot oil to move through, one to melt it more rapidly, two to give the warmer butter a place to go do it does not set on the bottom under a solid layer of unmelted butter.

 

[squidstings]

The elements are not exposed, I set the temp to 125 for my butter/oil mix and it is never over 145 after stirring so a good ways from scorching anything. Yes, I do realize there will be hot spots but not sure we would ever get to scorching when surrounded my unmelted butter or 4 gallons of cooler temp butters and oils. Have never burnt a butter to my knowledge. Lots of folks use these. Your mileage may vary.
I do keep 20” stainless whisks in the pots permanently. Before I start I smush up the butter and balm to create pathways for the hot oil to move through, one to melt it more rapidly, two to give the warmer butter a place to go do it does not set on the bottom under a solid layer of unmelted butter.

Nice looking setup! Kudos on the repurpose! I love seeing that!

 

[paradisi]

BigDog, Do those urns' elements make direct contact with the oils/butters? I've recently been warned about Acrolein. Something that's generated from overheating oils/fats ( lots of concern about "cooking" ). The oils/fats I use don't break down into acrolein at the soap-making temperatures I've experienced. But some oils will breakdown at lower temperatures.

And heating elements themselves always get well above the set temperature to achieve the desired temperature at the thermostat. Just some specifics you may want to research for your own safety.

Just learned about the risk, myself, recently. Sorry I don't have more info for you. Too many different oils to look up lol

Good point; the delta factor (don't know where the Greek symbol for heat-work is on this keyboard) is something to pay attention to.

Like the cumulative effects of light exposure on oils, constant exposure to heat will cause the same aging & degradation as a shorter but higher temperature exposure.

There's an equation for it, used in cosmetics stability testing, that factors time at x degrees above room temperature.

 

[AliOop]

I've recently been warned about Acrolein.

This warning had to do with overheating glycerin, not oils.

 

[squidstings]

This warning had to do with overheating glycerin, not oils.

Over-edited.

In researching temperatures to avoid, I discovered that the majority of search results had to do with Acrolein being produced by overheating "vegetable" oils and "fats". Things we both make soap with and cook with every day.

Over-edited.

In researching temperatures to avoid, I discovered that the majority of search results had to do with Acrolein being produced by overheating "vegetable" oils and "fats". Things we both make soap with and cook with every day.

This warning had to do with overheating glycerin, not oils.

Took a while. Wording!!

Glycerine begins to decompose, producing Acrolein, at 399.F (204C) for anyone wishing to dissolve their lye directly into Glycerine. Significantly above the 230F I've found is historically done. For soap making purposes I'm aware of. Within cooking temps though.