I read that oils like olive and avocado have a high percentage of unsaponifiable matter which makes them highly moisturising in soap. Does anyone have info on percentage of unsaponifiable matter in these or other oils (palm, coconut, castor, tallow etc)?
unsaponifiables in oils
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I don't have any info but I thought I'd bump this in case someone else might know.
Dahila
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http://www.soapcalc.net/default.asp
you probably know about this place?
you probably know about this place?
boyago
Well-Known Member
That information has been pretty scarce in most of my readings. When I do run across it is typically from someone who is in love with that particular oil. I would love to grill someone with an organic chem background on what kinds of things are effected by the sapponification process. So far I havent found any kind of list telling me what comes through let alone with any kind of number on it. Let me know if you do though. Here is something I read on shea specificaly:
Shea is high in unsaponifiables (bout 7-9% of the butter) but they are good for you.
If you like the technical stuff "These unsaps belong to two distinct chemical groups. The first group is triterpenes, 30 carbon linear and polycyilc hydrocarbons related to squalene (similar to fatty acids in the skin) and polycylic sterols. These sterols are probably responsible for the antifungal properties attributed to shea butter. Additionaly, much of the trierpene content is in the form of cinnamyl esters. Cinnamic acid absorbs UV rays and so some shea butter formulations are used as mild sunblock.
closely related to the triterpines are the carotenoids (vitamin A precursors) and tocopherols (vitamin E). Both classes of compounds are prevelant in the unsaps of shea butter. The other main group of unsaps include polyphenolic antioxidants, catechins and a family called flovonoids, which are closely related to the atioxidants found in green tea."
- from Dr. Robert and Katherine McDaniel, Soap Makers Workshop. Krause publications
Shea is high in unsaponifiables (bout 7-9% of the butter) but they are good for you.
If you like the technical stuff "These unsaps belong to two distinct chemical groups. The first group is triterpenes, 30 carbon linear and polycyilc hydrocarbons related to squalene (similar to fatty acids in the skin) and polycylic sterols. These sterols are probably responsible for the antifungal properties attributed to shea butter. Additionaly, much of the trierpene content is in the form of cinnamyl esters. Cinnamic acid absorbs UV rays and so some shea butter formulations are used as mild sunblock.
closely related to the triterpines are the carotenoids (vitamin A precursors) and tocopherols (vitamin E). Both classes of compounds are prevelant in the unsaps of shea butter. The other main group of unsaps include polyphenolic antioxidants, catechins and a family called flovonoids, which are closely related to the atioxidants found in green tea."
- from Dr. Robert and Katherine McDaniel, Soap Makers Workshop. Krause publications
Nevada
Well-Known Member
Thanks Nevada! I would never have thought of SAP. Gold star!
green soap
Well-Known Member
The saponification value has a lot more to do with the size of the molecules. For example, coconut oil is about 50% lauric fatty acids, and the chain length is only 12 carbons. Compare this for 18 carbons found in stearic acid, or oleic fatty acid. So this means that a certain weight of coconut oil will require more of the alkali (Lye as in NaOH or KOH) to saponify completely. So coconut oil has a high saponification value, compared to most oils that are richer in oleic (stearic, linoleic and linolenic).
So please do not confuse the SAP with the % unsaponifiables.
Unsaponifiables are either waxes or other lipids they are fats but they are not triglycerides. Only triglycerides saponify. I would love to find a table with the percent and composition of unsaponifiables in all fats we use in soaps. Still looking....
So please do not confuse the SAP with the % unsaponifiables.
Unsaponifiables are either waxes or other lipids they are fats but they are not triglycerides. Only triglycerides saponify. I would love to find a table with the percent and composition of unsaponifiables in all fats we use in soaps. Still looking....
Darn. And here I thought it did help. 
Nevada
Well-Known Member
Unsaponifiable
Any plant oil or fat is mostly made up of esters of glycerol and saturated fatty acids. Another smaller component is a group of substances called unsaponifiables. Unsaponifiable means that the substance can't be decomposed into an acid, alcohol or salt, which makes it very beneficial to the skin. Unsaponifiables contain most of the healing properties.
What sets Shea Butter apart from other seed oils is its exceptionally percentage of unsapoifiables. In other seed oils, the unsaponifiable percentage, or healing fraction, is very small, often in the range of 1% or less. While these seed oils may have a good to excellent moisturizing fraction, they contain little or no healing capabilities, as the EFA's, important nuturients, Vitamins, and/or phytonutrients are saponified, or decomposed by the body. Shea Butter has a higher amount of unsaponifiables than any other oil, between 7% and12%. The next highest is Avocado oil, a well known skin conditioner, which has between 2% and 6% unsaponifiables.
These fatty acids are indispensable for moisturizing and retaining the elasticity of the skin. By making up for lipid deficiencies in the epidermal cells, Shea Butter provides the skin with all the essential elements it needs for its good balance and can treat many skin problems, including blemishes, wrinkles, itching, sunburns, small skin wounds, eczema, skin allergies, insect bites, frost bite, and other skin conditions. Unsaponifiables are also responsible for Shea Butter's excellent spreadability and almost instant absorption into the skin.
http://www.trushea.com/unsaponifiable.html
Any plant oil or fat is mostly made up of esters of glycerol and saturated fatty acids. Another smaller component is a group of substances called unsaponifiables. Unsaponifiable means that the substance can't be decomposed into an acid, alcohol or salt, which makes it very beneficial to the skin. Unsaponifiables contain most of the healing properties.
What sets Shea Butter apart from other seed oils is its exceptionally percentage of unsapoifiables. In other seed oils, the unsaponifiable percentage, or healing fraction, is very small, often in the range of 1% or less. While these seed oils may have a good to excellent moisturizing fraction, they contain little or no healing capabilities, as the EFA's, important nuturients, Vitamins, and/or phytonutrients are saponified, or decomposed by the body. Shea Butter has a higher amount of unsaponifiables than any other oil, between 7% and12%. The next highest is Avocado oil, a well known skin conditioner, which has between 2% and 6% unsaponifiables.
These fatty acids are indispensable for moisturizing and retaining the elasticity of the skin. By making up for lipid deficiencies in the epidermal cells, Shea Butter provides the skin with all the essential elements it needs for its good balance and can treat many skin problems, including blemishes, wrinkles, itching, sunburns, small skin wounds, eczema, skin allergies, insect bites, frost bite, and other skin conditions. Unsaponifiables are also responsible for Shea Butter's excellent spreadability and almost instant absorption into the skin.
http://www.trushea.com/unsaponifiable.html
Thanks! That's good to know about shea and avocado.
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Nevada,
Can you tell us what the source of your information is? I'd like to read more. This phrase particularly: "Vitamins, and/or phytonutrients are saponified, or decomposed by the body" interests me. Does this pertain only to the saponification process, or does this mean that all those expensive oils that have become so popular (argan, rose seed, buckhorn) for slathering on the face, are a waste of money as it would seem the body either can't absorb them, or they are destroyed.
Thanks!
Can you tell us what the source of your information is? I'd like to read more. This phrase particularly: "Vitamins, and/or phytonutrients are saponified, or decomposed by the body" interests me. Does this pertain only to the saponification process, or does this mean that all those expensive oils that have become so popular (argan, rose seed, buckhorn) for slathering on the face, are a waste of money as it would seem the body either can't absorb them, or they are destroyed.
Thanks!
Boyago and Nevada, those are the types of answers I was looking for. I never quite understood why some oils are moisturizing is soap and others not eg. what is it that makes olive oil moisturizing and coconut oil not. The info that SoapCalc provides is not always 100% accurate representation to what your soap will be. Your answers give me some clarifications. Thanx 
Lin
Well-Known Member
What makes some oils moisturizing and the others not (eg olive vs coconut) is the fatty acid profile. Coconuts fatty acid profile lends to a highly cleansing, bubbling soap. Olive's lends to a gentle lotion like lather that does not remove a lot of the skin oils.
Hello everyone - I am enjoying this discussion. This year I made 100% shea butter soap and I noticed that the colors in the soap are not as vibrant as in other soaps (such as olive oil or coconut oil soaps), no matter the soaping temperature. In the picture, notice the muted colors and steric spots. The oil and lye solution were at around 135 F and in a well-insulated silicone mold. I've repeated the 100% shea butter recipe around 10 times with different fragrances and colorants and the same muted colors show up. Do you think the unsaponifiables may be the culprit? Or something else?
