Trying the famous shampoo bar recipe - feedback please

[gigisiguenza]

.01 oz is a fairly normal accuracy. If you are making batches under a pound, it really does need to be .01 grams.

I used to have one for dying wool. Try a head shop or Amazon.

That's where I found mine LOL a local head shop

 

[penelopejane]

I can't say for sure why your batch is spongy. While it's possible that it could be from a weight discrepancy, it could also be because it did not go through complete gel, or maybe it's from one of your additives (such as too much sugar, etc..), or maybe from your oil combination. What did you use in your recipe?

IrishLass

I used:
30% - Almond oil in one (1) camellia oil in the other. (2)
10% - Castor
40% - Olive
10% - Shea
10% - Ricebran
6% - SF
25% Lye Concentration

The lye concentration was a mistake as it reverted to default.

I made 2x 500g batches at the same time. Mixed a master batch of lye.. One had BB winter gardenia (1) the other BB champagne. (2) both had a few drops of green liquid pigment (1) in the top swirl (2) in the base.

I wrapped both in a wooden blanket and put in 100*F oven and turned it off.
(1) (Almond/winter gardenia/plain base w green swirl) great - gelled all the way through, hard soap. This was in a plastic mold I've used before.
(2) (camellia/champagne/green base) is semi translucent all the way through, very soft and spongy but consistent all the way through 4 days later. This was in a plastic Chinese food container I haven't used before (accident with my mold at the start of the pour).

I just can't see where I went wrong since one is fine and the other is weird.

 

[IrishLass]

Hi PJ!

If you look at the fatty acid profile of your recipe on SoapCalc and compare the formula with almond to the formula with the camellia, it will all become clear.....

If you look down the line of the fatty acid profile, you'll see that everything looks pretty comparable all the way down the line until you get to the oleic % and the linolenic %.

The formula made with almond has 58% oleic and 1% linolenic content, while the soap made with camellia lost 14% from the oleic and gave it all over to the linolenic.

High levels of linolenic (and/or also linoleic) make for a comparatively softer soap than other soaps made with higher levels of oleic or stearic or palmitic, etc... Most recipes usually have no more than 1 or 2% linolenic in them, and it's oftentimes not uncommon to have 0% linolenic. When you combine the fact that you have 14% linolenic in your camellia formula, along with the 15% linoleic that you also have in the same formula, it becomes clear why your camellia version is softer than the almond version. The camellia version has a double-whammy of the soft fatty acids than the almond version.

HTH!
IrishLass

 

[penelopejane]

Oh wow thank you so much I didn't notice that!
What a difference.

I've used 10% camellia before will go back and look at those soaps and read my notes on them too.

I'm going to give up on camellia oil now that I've found avocado oil at a sensible price. (Up until now avocado oil I have found has been $40 per litre (2 pints) to buy here)

I am so pleased there is a reason for this (other than soap gremlins which isn't very scientific) I have been going around in circles trying to work it out.
Thank you.

 

[yinepu]

I bought mine from Lotioncrafter's (it's a Jennings- JSR 200), but you can buy it cheaper here: http://www.oldwillknottscales.com/jennings-jsr-200.html



IrishLass

thank you!

 

[penelopejane]

Hi PJ!

High levels of linolenic (and/or also linoleic) make for a comparatively softer soap than other soaps made with higher levels of oleic or stearic or palmitic, etc... Most recipes usually have no more than 1 or 2% linolenic in them, and it's oftentimes not uncommon to have 0% linolenic. When you combine the fact that you have 14% linolenic in your camellia formula, along with the 15% linoleic that you also have in the same formula, it becomes clear why your camellia version is softer than the almond version. The camellia version has a double-whammy of the soft fatty acids than the almond version.

HTH!
IrishLass

Irish Lass,

I thought I would let you know that I checked each soap in which I had used Camellia oil and even at 10% it has effected the final soap. Each soap was one that didn't pour well or didn't cure properly or took ages to cure and is still slightly soft. Not sure the camellia oil was always responsible - it could be my poor soaping. I have used a few of the finished soaps and they seem ok but nothing extraordinary.

Thank you very much, Irish Lass. I did look at all the oil specifications but didn't pick up on the linolenic in Camellia and can now see how important it is.

Not quite sure what to do with the 500ml of Camellia oil I have left

 

[Susie]

You could use it, just in smaller amounts. Or use it in leave on products, such as lip balm or body butter.

 

[shunt2011]

I agree with Susie, I would save it for a body butter, lip balm or sugar scrub.

 

[penelopejane]

You could use it, just in smaller amounts. Or use it in leave on products, such as lip balm or body butter.

I agree with Susie, I would save it for a body butter, lip balm or sugar scrub.

Thanks Susie and shunt I foresee some more research in my future.

 

[penelopejane]

Hi PJ!

If you look at the fatty acid profile of your recipe on SoapCalc and compare the formula with almond to the formula with the camellia, it will all become clear.....

If you look down the line of the fatty acid profile, you'll see that everything looks pretty comparable all the way down the line until you get to the oleic % and the linolenic %.

The formula made with almond has 58% oleic and 1% linolenic content, while the soap made with camellia lost 14% from the oleic and gave it all over to the linolenic.

IrishLass

Irish lass,
Sorry to take over this thread but I would like to clarify this.
Were you looking at Camellia Oil, Tea seed or Camelina Seed Oil on soap calc? Camellia Oil and Almond oil linoleic and linolenic levels appear pretty similar to me, maybe Almond oil is even a bit worse?

There is definitely something iffy about Camellia Oil as all my soaps using it have "failed" just not sure of the reason?

 

[IrishLass]

Irish lass,
Sorry to take over this thread but I would like to clarify this.
Were you looking at Camellia Oil, Tea seed or Camelina Seed Oil on soap calc? Camellia Oil and Almond oil linoleic and linolenic levels appear pretty similar to me, maybe Almond oil is even a bit worse?

There is definitely something iffy about Camellia Oil as all my soaps using it have "failed" just not sure of the reason?

Good catch there, PJ! Turns out I actually typed in Camelina Seed Oil (with the 'n'), wouldn't you know it. The word 'Tea' after Camellia threw me off. Since I'm not familiar with Camellia seed oil, and since you didn't use the word 'tea' in your post, I just clicked on the oil above it instead, which my eyes (falsely) read as being plain old Camellia Seed Oil without the 'tea', but on deeper glance just now, I see the 'n' in there and realize now how much I screwed up.

Well, shoot..... that completely throws a wrench in my original theory, doesn't it?! lol

Hmmmmm....... did your soap with the camellia oil gel completely?


IrishLass

 

[penelopejane]

Good catch there, PJ! Turns out I actually typed in Camelina Seed Oil (with the 'n'), wouldn't you know it. The word 'Tea' after Camellia threw me off. Since I'm not familiar with Camellia seed oil, and since you didn't use the word 'tea' in your post, I just clicked on the oil above it instead, which my eyes (falsely) read as being plain old Camellia Seed Oil without the 'tea', but on deeper glance just now, I see the 'n' in there and realize now how much I screwed up.

Well, shoot..... that completely throws a wrench in my original theory, doesn't it?! lol

Hmmmmm....... did your soap with the camellia oil gel completely?


IrishLass

Yes it did gel completely - it is the same consistency all the way through - it is soft and spongy. It is sort of translucent. It is 7 days old now.

It is such a pity, and there must be something in Camellia oil that isn't showing in soap calc (or maybe just in my Camellia oil - although it is from a top supplier here) because everything you said makes perfect sense.

Each of my recipes using camellia oil (10%) was soft and spongy and took ages to cure. This one is the only one I've put 30% camellia oil in and it is displaying the same symptoms as the others but worse!

So strange. Don't worry too much. I think I will use the last remaining bit I have one a lotion or balm (when I get good enough to branch out from soap) and revert to tried and tested avocado oil. I've now found a good, cheap supplier for avocado oil so that is great.

Here is a photo.

I am so sorry to butt into the Shampoo soap thread but this is what happens when you play around with recipes!