True or False?

[SoaperForLife]

[QUOTE="steffamarie, post: 710007, member: 27759"As far as the claims themselves go, I think the most logical course of action is to examine them chemically. Is it possible to create a bar of soap in which the goat's milk and NaOH neutralize each other to create a lower pH than typically exists in soap? I'm sure someone like DeeAnna would be better equipped to answer that question..[/QUOTE]

When I look up pH readings for goat's milk I find that it runs around 7.4 - of course that varies but that is probably a ball park figure to use. Water has a pH of 7 so if it was possible to make a soap using goat's milk and end up with a lower pH than I think that it's safe to say that water would do the same. Cow's milk is actually lower than goat's milk too - somewhere in the range of 6....

 

[jcandleattic]

Ok crazy goat woman here - goat milk baths are WONDERFUL! I add about 1-2L of milk to a warm running bath - sometimes more sometimes less depends on how much extra goat milk I have. I've never done a full milk bath as I've never had enough.

They don't get you clean ... I still use soap. And importantly, you need to rinse off in the shower after you get out of the bath

But my skin is ULTRA soft the next day after a milk bath. Its awesome! (and no I don't smell afterwards haha)

I do this also. Not every bath, only about 1-2 times a year, but yes, they leave your skin so soft and luxurious, I love my milk baths.

 

[SoaperForLife]

Has to be the lactic acid in the milk that makes you feel that way.

 

[steffamarie]

Update: I did email the company and they got back to me today. She said in 20 years, no one has ever asked about the goat's milk or the essential oils (that was a question of my own - they claim they use so much EO their products are considered "therapeutic" - which I'm not sure is a claim they can make). She said the founder/owner of the company would be more able to answer and happy to give me a call at my convenience. Anything anyone would like me to address with her?

1. How does the regulation work for considering body products 'therapeutic' in relation to essential oils?
2. It wouldn't seem possible for goat's milk soap to result in a pH low enough to be "close to" human skin. How is that chemical reaction figured?

Please feel free to add to this - I'm free on Tuesdays so I'll probably have her give me a ring then.

 

[DeeAnna]

As far as the claims themselves go, I think the most logical course of action is to examine them chemically. Is it possible to create a bar of soap in which the goat's milk and NaOH neutralize each other to create a lower pH than typically exists in soap? I'm sure someone like DeeAnna would be better equipped to answer that question..

The claims being debated in this thread seem to be based on the "common sense" idea that soap pH is a straightforward thing -- something simplistic and akin to turning the flame up or down on a gas cookstove. Soap is a "buffer" as chemists define those things, however. The response of any buffer to acidic and alkaline chemicals is not nearly as obvious and "logical" as a non-chemistry person might assume.

People often add citric or acetic acids or sometimes lactic acid from fermented dairy (yogurt, etc.) to their soap. These products have a pH that's as low or lower than non-fermented milk, whether the milk be goat or cow or whatever. The response of soap to any added acid is to neutralize any excess alkalinity (aka excess lye) and to raise the superfat. The superfat is raised by the soap decomposing into fatty acids and/or by reducing the alkali available for saponifying the fat. Add enough acid, and the soap will continue to decompose and eventually will not be able to function as soap anymore. And at that point, there's a good probability the pH of this buffered mess may STILL be alkaline.

I do not understand why people claim non-fermented goat milk can lower the soap pH without fundamentally changing the soap as I've described. From my perspective, non-fermented milk has no particular "magic" in soap compared with any other acid one might use.

 

[SoaperForLife]

[QUOTE="DeeAnna, post: 711031, member: 9248I do not understand why people claim non-fermented goat milk can lower the soap pH without fundamentally changing the soap as I've described. From my perspective, non-fermented milk has no particular "magic" in soap compared with any other acid one might use.[/QUOTE]

My guess is rather simplistic....someone a long time ago assumed (or made up) these claims about goat's milk soap and made them public. Then another person saw those claims and copied them and it grew from there. If you google on goat's milk soap you will notice that a lot of the websites basically use the same wordage to describe their products. John Q Public believes all this crap and away we go!

 

[DeeAnna]

My comment was rhetorical -- I agree that's how it got started.

 

[Primrose]

It frustrates me to no end as a goat milk soaper because I know that I cant make these claims so I dont, but half a dozen other GM soapers do, so guess who Joe Public thinks has the better more magical GM soap? :/

 

[OldHippie]

someone a long time ago assumed (or made up) these claims about [fill in the blank] and made them public. Then another person saw those claims and copied them and it grew from there.

This is a universal problem, especially on the Internet.

 

[redhead1226]

This is a universal problem, especially on the Internet.

And it is a huge problem with this particular craft. I do a lot of research on my own as I have a very curious mind frankly I am a major "pain in the a**) on many of the facebook soaping groups when I read something that I know is not true. I usually only comment on those type of things. And believe me I get lambasted for telling them it is not true, like half the crap they put in soap that does absolutely nothing. I do not think that lying to the public and making claims that are not true helps any of us. And bad soap out there ( the one month soap makers that are already selling) has the public thinking that we all make bad soap. I'm not sure that the public has any clue what handmade soap really is at this point since apparently it cures everything in the world, and its a moisturizer and a lotion and god only knows what else. LMAO!

 

[cmzaha]

And it is a huge problem with this particular craft. I do a lot of research on my own as I have a very curious mind frankly I am a major "pain in the a**) on many of the facebook soaping groups when I read something that I know is not true. I usually only comment on those type of things. And believe me I get lambasted for telling them it is not true, like half the crap they put in soap that does absolutely nothing. I do not think that lying to the public and making claims that are not true helps any of us. And bad soap out there ( the one month soap makers that are already selling) has the public thinking that we all make bad soap. I'm not sure that the public has any clue what handmade soap really is at this point since apparently it cures everything in the world, and its a moisturizer and a lotion and god only knows what else. LMAO!

It drives me nuts. I still get customers coming to my booth that purchased from a former seller in the little market I am in. She had the cure all soaps that she removed from the mold and put them out to sell. I watched her do it. I tell them there is no magic it is soap and soap cleans which is the purpose of soap, then they proceed to argue that they purchased acne soap that was wonderful. It was a fresh charcoal bar she sold. Drives me Crazy...

 

[OldHippie]

And it is a huge problem with this particular craft. I do a lot of research on my own as I have a very curious mind frankly I am a major "pain in the a**)

It's comforting to know that I'm not alone.

 

[Lin19687]

I tell people " it is soap, period. It is a wash off product that only cleans. If someone tells you it cures anything it is hog wash... literately ! haha

 

[earlene]

I like 'hogwash'. One of my dad's well used words. One of many; the man was a scholar and a journalist. An honorable and well educated man, whom I miss frequently.

 

[SoaperForLife]

Or the soap with jewelweed that helps with poison ivy

I like 'hogwash'. One of my dad's well used words. One of many; the man was a scholar and a journalist. An honorable and well educated man, whom I miss frequently.

Sorry about your dad! I miss mine too... there used to be a soap labeled Hogwash - they sold it at Tractor Supply.