True or False?

[Rune]

You make it seem like I have written the worst things in the world, while it only was another word for nonsense. That's it, and nothing more than that. A common english word used everywhere, even by your own president. So if you make complete war because a foreigner doesn't know exactly which words that are accepted and which are not, and which words that are borderline, well then. I guess people are bored - hurricane in a glass of water!

 

[OldHippie]

"These good fats in goat's milk result in a pH level so close to the pH level of your own skin, it helps keep your skin's oils in balance."

Taken from a well-known and popular soap manufacturer.... true or false? What do you think?

This is basically true if you're talking about the goat's milk as an INGREDIENT and not the resulting SOAP.

I know exactly who says that... there's a lot of misleading information that they post about their soaps... such as only using essential oil in their soaps. Really? Sandalwood essential oil soap for only $6??? I've gotten their tangerine-orange soaps and it took me over a year before I got to use them. I would not expect orange essential oil to last for over a year, but there it was holding strong. But back to pH... yeah, it sounds good and people who don't know better want to believe it. Science says it's not possible though. They'll continue to do so until they get busted on it. Although just to poke the bear, I am tempted to send them a message asking "how is this possible" and see what I get for a response.

ETA: I did just run over to their website because Rune and I were posting at the same time. I was curious to see how their ingredients were listed because of the "main ingredient" comment. Here's the ingredients: saponified 100% food grade olive, coconut, palm & castor oils in a goat's milk base, with pure essential oils, and seaweed. [taken from their new GM seaweed bar]. So many things wrong with this ingredient list, I'd like to throw up thinking of all the time I've spent making sure that mine were correct. Their wording of "goat's milk base" leads me to believe this is a m&p situation, and they don't realize they are using detergents or don't want to acknowledge it. I know they say they CP soaps... but maybe not ALL of them??

You state flat out as a fact: "there's a lot of misleading information that they post about their soaps" Sounds like you've given them a cause of action against you for slander/libel.

The old orange soap did not meet your negative expectations, and the sandalwood is cheaper than you think that it should be, and they use the term "goat's milk base" so you make slanderous/libelous assumptions that they're using FO and MP?

Water is the very base of saponification. If they're substituting goat's milk for the water, then they have a goat's milk base, don't they?

 

[dibbles]

@Rune, I think most of us have heard your chosen adjective plenty. It's okay - you didn't know some would find it offensive, and now you do. So, as I see it, no worries.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

All I know about ZUM soap is that it flies off the shelves at our local natural grocers... they must be doing something right.

 

[steffamarie]

I've never heard of this soap until this thread, but I'm very dubious. I think one of the issues is that to the layperson, none of these claims would be in any way subject to the kind of scrutiny we soapmakers place them under. To us, it seems they're giving misinformation, but to a consumer, it's just like any other claims companies make on products.

From what has been gathered here, I suppose the products shouldn't be harmful, but it may be deceptive on the company's part. Since the FDA doesn't regulate claims like this, I suppose we can't know for sure whether they're telling the truth.

In terms of "slandering" the company, I would say it is well within the rights of fellow soapmakers to question what they do not understand to be true based on their experience. To be concerned that a company (or an individual, for that matter) is making false claims is something that I know the soapmaking community feels strongly about. Has anyone reached out to the company regarding this?

 

[OldHippie]

In terms of "slandering" the company, I would say it is well within the rights of fellow soapmakers to question what they do not understand to be true based on their experience.

I absolutely agree. However, it was presented as a statement of fact, not a question. The logic stream was presumptuous.

 

[steffamarie]

I absolutely agree. However, it was presented as a statement of fact, not a question. The logic stream was presumptuous.

I believe it is naturally human to make assumptions in order to suss out more information about a situation. I did email the company to ask a couple of questions regarding these claims. I personally would like to hear their explanation before making a judgement call.

I can understand why fellow soapmakers would become disconcerted and even a little angry - when a large company makes claims about a product and those claims are not shared by small business soapers, the consumers may become confused. It may become difficult for at-home soapmakers to keep their comparatively small client base when it would seem they are receiving conflicting information. I think of an example of every drama TV show ever when a superior disagrees with their subordinate - "Do you really think they will believe an ensign over an admiral?" and other such situations.

As far as the claims themselves go, I think the most logical course of action is to examine them chemically. Is it possible to create a bar of soap in which the goat's milk and NaOH neutralize each other to create a lower pH than typically exists in soap? I'm sure someone like DeeAnna would be better equipped to answer that question.

If the company emails me back, I'll be sure to share it here! I also asked about their claim that their products contain enough essential oils to be considered therapeutic. I am skeptical about this as well as about the pH question.

 

[Alfa_Lazcares]

As far as the claims themselves go, I think the most logical course of action is to examine them chemically. Is it possible to create a bar of soap in which the goat's milk and NaOH neutralize each other to create a lower pH than typically exists in soap? I'm sure someone like DeeAnna would be better equipped to answer that question.

No, because then it wouldnt be soap.

 

[lenarenee]

True. Too low a pH and the soap loses integrity (learned that from DeeAnna)

 

[SoaperForLife]

Here's another one from a well-known supplier:

"Powdered Goat Milk: Handcrafted, handmade soap is great for the skin and adding milk only makes it better. Goat milk is particularlymoisturizing and nourishing to the skin because of capric-caprylic triglyceride. Capric-caprylic triglyceride is an effective skin moisturizer that helps to contribute to skin softness by forming a barrier on the skin to help inhibit the loss of moisture. It is the only milk that contains naturally occurring capric-caprylic triglycerides. The protein strands of goat milk are shorter than other types of milk and are more readily absorbed by skin. Goat milk is also fantastic in handmade soap because it has a lower pH (between 4.0 and 6.4), thus reducing the overall pH of the final bar of soap."

 

[earlene]

Well, then, why not just bathe in goat milk? Forego the GM soap altogether!

I wonder what a bathtub full of goats milk would feel like?

 

[Dean]

Well, then, why not just bathe in goat milk? Forego the GM soap altogether!

I wonder what a bathtub full of goats milk would feel like?

How do u keep the goat from jumping out of the tub while she's being milked?

 

[Lin19687]

Cleopatra

 

[earlene]

Now I'm picturing a young and beautiful Elizabeth Taylor in full Cleopatra garb & make-up, regaled in luxury while her hand-maidens milk multiple goats to provide her with a warm goat milk bathing experience!

 

[SudsanSoaps]

Just imagine the smell after being out of the bath for a couple hours.

 

[Dean]

Just imagine the smell after being out of the bath for a couple hours.

...but the goats kicking in protest would make fabulous lather.

 

[Primrose]

Ok crazy goat woman here - goat milk baths are WONDERFUL! I add about 1-2L of milk to a warm running bath - sometimes more sometimes less depends on how much extra goat milk I have. I've never done a full milk bath as I've never had enough.

They don't get you clean ... I still use soap. And importantly, you need to rinse off in the shower after you get out of the bath

But my skin is ULTRA soft the next day after a milk bath. Its awesome! (and no I don't smell afterwards haha)

 

[earlene]

Oh, Primrose, you have me totally interested in a GM bath now! Next time I visit granddaughter, I am going to go buy a can of GM and suggest she add it to her bath water. I'll try it myself first, of course.

Do you think the canned stuff will work just as well?

 

[Primrose]

I've not tried it, but I cant see why not. I think people often use powdered milk if they dont have access to the real thing

 

[OldHippie]

I buy fresh goat's milk at Walmart (not every one has it). It's about 60 cents/qt more than mixing the powdered, but you save the cost of a quart of distilled water, and "Fresh Goat's Milk" looks so good on the label...