Trisodium Phosphate or sodium percarbonate in mechanics soap

[Chispa]

My hands get wrecked when cleaning them with acetone, and I was hoping to find a gentler way. When working in the shop I often get grease, oil, varnish, or oil paint embedded in my hands. After washing my hands a number of times, they get cracked and raw. I've read a few threads recommending borax as an additive to mechanic's/blacksmith's/gardener's soap. The amount is a bit fuzzy, some recipes call for a tablespoon some a half cup.

I was reading the Cold Process for beginners thread where caution regarding borax is discussed and oxyclean was put forward as an alternative.

The active ingredient in oxyclean is sodium percarbonate. I use this to help clean up my brew kettles, and it is a very capable cleaner. I use the sodium perc in a mix with tri-sodium phosphate (TSP) and it is powerful indeed. I mix 2 parts sodium perc to 1 part TSP and add that at a rate of about half a cup per five gallons of hot water to clean my kettles. It is not too hard on my skin, Ive never noticed any problems with my hands while scrubbing up with it.

Has anyone used either of these chemicals in a soap bar or have a guide in how much to use?

 

[Zany_in_CO]

If t'were me, I would use a hard bar mechanics soap with pumice (gritty), orange EO X 10 (degreaser) and a balanced forumla which should work for oil paint. I'm not sure what would work for removing varnish, but I would give linseed/flaxseed a try as part of the soaping oils. Here's a link to one I think would work well, without making your hands raw:

https://www.soapqueen.com/bath-and-body-tutorials/mechanics-cold-process-soap-bar-tutorial/

 

[Chispa]

Thanks Zany,
I was hoping to escape without buying from an online supplier. Which is why I was trying to use some of the chemicals that I have on hand. I have looked at d-limonene, and if it wasn't so absurdly expensive at the hardware store I'd have used it. I like the idea of linseed oil, might give it a try next time.

After some thought, I figured that sodium percarbonate is probably out, embedding an oxidiser in my soap is probably not the best for longevity. It would be working hard to destroy my fats. I reckon trisodium phosphate might work though.

In the end I cooked a high(ish) cleansing hand bar, without much in the way of special effects. A bit of lanolin and tea tree for restoration of rough hands. I'll see how it goes, and add inventive ingredients down the track as they prove necessary/fortuitous

55% Coconut
37% Lard
5% Castor
3% Lanolin

2.5% Tea tree oil (as fragrance)
1% superfat

2% sugar
2% salt
10g citric acid (2%)
6.24g addl lye

I CPOPed it at 65C and witnessed my first soap gel. All my other soaps just went hard in the oven, this one went a bit translucent. When I poked the soap with a curious finger, it went right through a slight crust and left a permanent dent in the jelly like soap. I pulled it out of the oven and let cool overnight. I cut up the bars this morning and they are a pleasant ivory colour. I've attached a photo with a comparison to my snow-white 80/15/5 Lard/CO/Castor bar. I wonder if it was the lanolin that made it the creamy colour.

My whole house smells like tea tree, especially the laundry. I had spilled a tiny amount of the TTO on the counter, and wiped it up with a cloth that I chucked in the laundry. Wife is not so impressed.

 

[earlene]

Yeah, some odors don't seem to ever wash out. That's why I tend to only use rags to clean up strong smelling spills, cleaners or oils. Then those get tossed in the trash. Even rags used for applying floor wax run through the washing machine and dryer lead to everything smelling like floor wax AND a slippery waxy, but invisible coating on the items that came out of the dryer (yes, I did that once and it was annoying.)

I like lanolin in soap. I've done it a few times myself, but haven't tried it in the BlackSmith soap I make for my brother.

The small amount of Borax used in the soap certainly doesn't seem to me to be much of an issue. It's only about 0.15% of the total batch size. I doubt that would be a significant issue even though there doesn't seem to be anything I can find supporting or disproving what the 'safe exposure limit' is in the first place.

Even so, in the case of my brother, the BlackSmith, he uses Borax on a regular basis as many Black Smiths do as flux in the process of his work. So putting such a tiny amount into the soap certainly would make little, if any difference in the overall scheme of things.

That being said, I would suggest that whatever chemical you add to your mechanics soap, if you are already using it on a regular basis (said chemical), if the amount is minute by comparison to your overall exposure, then I would say it wouldn't make that much difference in the overall scheme of things (exposure-wise) for you as well. The only thing I would suggest is that once your soap is sufficiently cured, the proof is in the performance of said soap. In reading your recipe, that certainly is a very cleansing formula, but I would think with that much Coconut Oil, it's not going to last very long (CO soaps melt down pretty quickly with use), but maybe the lard will help a bit with longevity. I don't know as I don't make high CO soaps because they are too drying to my skin.

NB: Re: Borax safe or not safe: https://crunchybetty.com/getting-to-the-bottom-of-borax-is-it-safe-or-not/

 

[Chispa]

Thanks Earlene, especially for the link at the end. I read all over the internet about borax and didn't see that article. It's a recent article too! Now I somewhat regret not adding borax.
It will be interesting to see if the lard can rescue the bars from melting too fast. I hadn't thought about that when formulating the recipe. Soapee only lists the longevity at 22%, so the batch might go quickly.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

I have looked at d-limonene, and if it wasn't so absurdly expensive at the hardware store I'd have used it.

You aren't missing anything. I tested d-limonene vs lemon essential oil and the EO was the better cleanser, degreaser and rinsed cleanly where d-limonene took a little more "elbow grease" and didn't rinse off well, i.e., left a little residue behind. Better than either of those is orange EO X 10. As little as 1 teaspoon in a liter of water with 1 tablespoon liquid coconut soap, 1 tablespoon white vinegar, and 1 teaspoon Borax (water softener) makes a great spray for cleaning greasy (black) range tops. A quick spritz plus a wipe with a paper towel leaves it shiny with no streaks. I use it to clean all my kitchen appliances and counters. Nice stuff.

 

[Tmwmo5]

You aren't missing anything. I tested d-limonene vs lemon essential oil and the EO was the better cleanser, degreaser and rinsed cleanly where d-limonene took a little more "elbow grease" and didn't rinse off well, i.e., left a little residue behind. Better than either of those is orange EO X 10. As little as 1 teaspoon in a liter of water with 1 tablespoon liquid coconut soap, 1 tablespoon white vinegar, and 1 teaspoon Borax (water softener) makes a great spray for cleaning greasy (black) range tops. A quick spritz plus a wipe with a paper towel leaves it shiny with no streaks. I use it to clean all my kitchen appliances and counters. Nice stuff.

With the ingredients you have put in this post could you swap Borax with bicarbonate of soda I’m in the uk so Borax is not as easy to get hold of and if Borax is only used as a water softener would this work ?

 

[Zany_in_CO]

With the ingredients you have put in this post could you swap Borax with bicarbonate of soda I’m in the uk so Borax is not as easy to get hold of and if Borax is only used as a water softener would this work ?

The other water softener I use is Liquid Calgon. If that's not available either, try the bicarbonate of soda. I don't see any reason why it shouldn't work. I've never tried it.

 

[DeeAnna]

I wouldn't use bicarbonate of soda (sodium bicarbonate, baking soda). I'd use washing soda (sodium carbonate, washing soda) instead.

Bicarb is not as alkaline as soap, so it causes the soap to decompose into fatty acids. So adding it will essentially increase the superfat in the soap, which is probably what you don't want. Washing soda is about as alkaline as soap, so it plays nice with soap and does not cause soap to decompose.

 

[Tmwmo5]

I wouldn't use bicarbonate of soda (sodium bicarbonate, baking soda). I'd use washing soda (sodium carbonate, washing soda) instead.

Bicarb is not as alkaline as soap, so it causes the soap to decompose into fatty acids. So adding it will essentially increase the superfat in the soap, which is probably what you don't want. Washing soda is about as alkaline as soap, so it plays nice with soap and does not cause soap to decompose.

I have some washing soda oh dear a new project

 

[DeeAnna]

I have some washing soda oh dear a new project

You might want to check out Earlene's Blacksmith Soap thread. There's a lot of discussion about using washing soda there.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Washing soda is about as alkaline as soap, so it plays nice with soap and does not cause soap to decompose.

Good to know. Thank you.

 

[Tmwmo5]

You might want to check out Earlene's Blacksmith Soap thread. There's a lot of discussion about using washing soda there.

Thank you