The Truth About Lasting Fragrance (Essential Oils)

[DianaMoon]

I always try to do my research before coming here. So I read this*:

https://www.brambleberry.com/how-to/soap/art0122-scent-fading.html
But I always love to hear experienced soapers' hands-on experiences with scent.

In my (limited) experience, essential oils are all quite transient, and the only way to get a lasting scent is to go to a fragrance oil. I'd love to try geranium oil because I love the way it dries down, but not enthusiastic about spending the $$ and then finding out that it's faded.

The only scent that has lasted for me is that in cocoa butter. I love the way it ages. But if I want to make a non-CB soap, what essential oil alternatives are there? I'm not against fragrance oils by the way. Just curious.

*In any case the article above deals only with FO's which are designed to last through chemical processes. EO's aren't.

PS I apologize for posting this before I looked more thoroughly: there is a Review chart here, however, many of the links are dead.

 

[TheGecko]

I haven't played around with a lot of EOs...Orange 10x and Lemon. I have a few others in my Scent Rack, but haven't tried them yet. They do fade. The only reason I know that the two bars I have left are Orange and Lemon is because of the colorant (and the labels).

To be honest, outside of the above, I really have no interest in messing around with EOs. 1) You have to be even more careful of safe usage rates than FOs (IMHO), 2) Unless you are into single scents, then you need to get into 'blending' and that's just not a row I want to hoe, and 3) EOs are EXPENSIVE!

The closest you are going to get to a Chocolate EO is Cocoa Absolute and Eden Botanicals sells a 2 gram bottle for $15.00. I look for a 'safe usage rate' but couldn't find one. But let's say a usage rate of 2% for my 10-bar loaf...I can't even afford to make it for myself much less try to convince someone to pay $60.00 for a 4 oz bar.

 

[DianaMoon]

To be honest, outside of the above, I really have no interest in messing around with EOs. 1) You have to be even more careful of safe usage rates than FOs (IMHO)try to convince someone to pay $60.00 for a 4 oz bar.

That is true. An FO formulated to be used in soap is probably far safer. "Natural" doesn't necessarily mean safe. Poison ivy is natural....

 

[Zing]

I've had good luck with 5X and 10X citrus. Also works when I blend citrus with litsea cubeba.

I followed the 2 suggestions here and despite saponification, the cocoa butter still smelled. Also I love benzoin resinoid; I'm bad at describing scents but it's a sweet/chocolatey/vanilla-y/delicious scent. I used both in my hot chocolate soap with great success. keeping or duping scent of cocoa butter? .

 

[lyschelw]

I read Brambleberry's article, thank you for sharing. I am still a new soaper here but I used to know a lot more chemistry in a former life. And my question, that goes along with yours, is - wouldn't over fatting the soap save more of the scent? Basically, saponification is a chemical reaction. For every molecule of lye it will change a molecule of fat...That being said, if you put in more fat than the lye will eat shouldn't you get stronger scents? I know it is a balance since you need to get the oils changed into soap. But I see some people doing like 10% Superfat. Doesn't it make sense that you would get stronger scents? Or an I missing something?

 

[Peachy Clean Soap]

I read Brambleberry's article, thank you for sharing. I am still a new soaper here but I used to know a lot more chemistry in a former life. And my question, that goes along with yours, is - wouldn't over fatting the soap save more of the scent? Basically, saponification is a chemical reaction. For every molecule of lye it will change a molecule of fat...That being said, if you put in more fat than the lye will eat shouldn't you get stronger scents? I know it is a balance since you need to get the oils changed into soap. But I see some people doing like 10% Superfat. Doesn't it make sense that you would get stronger scents? Or an I missing something?

@Iyschelw I took a look at your website & your product info for ‘IFRA’ on FO scents is a handy search option for multiple uses. your FO macaroon, sounds like it would smell wonderful as well. 🕯

 

[lyschelw]

@Iyschelw I took a look at your website & your product info for ‘IFRA’ on FO scents is a handy search option for multiple uses. your FO macaroon, sounds like it would smell wonderful as well. 🕯

Thank you Peachy! I haven't done our Coconut Macaroon in soap yet. Now I am wondering if it would have the incredible fresh baked "pop" as it does in candles. Or if it will be one of thoses that gets eaten. I did our Candy Corn and it totally got blitzed. Kinda smelled like Play-Doh in the end. For some reason I fear that may happen to Coconut Macaroon too. Only one way to find out....

 

[Peachy Clean Soap]

Thank you Peachy! I haven't done our Coconut Macaroon in soap yet. Now I am wondering if it would have the incredible fresh baked "pop" as it does in candles. Or if it will be one of thoses that gets eaten. I did our Candy Corn and it totally got blitzed. Kinda smelled like Play-Doh in the end. For some reason I fear that may happen to Coconut Macaroon too. Only one way to find out....

Thx for your reply’ appreciate it. 🕯

 

[DianaMoon]

I've had good luck with 5X and 10X citrus. Also works when I blend citrus with litsea cubeba.

I followed the 2 suggestions here and despite saponification, the cocoa butter still smelled. Also I love benzoin resinoid; I'm bad at describing scents but it's a sweet/chocolatey/vanilla-y/delicious scent. I used both in my hot chocolate soap with great success. keeping or duping scent of cocoa butter? .

Cocoa butter is a different issue entirely - it's not an added scent. It's something intrinsic to the material. In my experience, it's the only scent that persists. I don't think it can be replicated.

I read Brambleberry's article, thank you for sharing. I am still a new soaper here but I used to know a lot more chemistry in a former life. And my question, that goes along with yours, is - wouldn't over fatting the soap save more of the scent? Basically, saponification is a chemical reaction. For every molecule of lye it will change a molecule of fat...That being said, if you put in more fat than the lye will eat shouldn't you get stronger scents? I know it is a balance since you need to get the oils changed into soap. But I see some people doing like 10% Superfat. Doesn't it make sense that you would get stronger scents? Or an I missing something?

Makes sense to me although there's a point where superfatting becomes tricky and you really get into the weeds and I'm just not interested in that.

Also hot process would be a better way to preserve the scent of an EO. But the whole issue of EO v. FO as far as "natural" is a dead letter to me. Whatever works - safely.

 

[AliOop]

I read Brambleberry's article, thank you for sharing. I am still a new soaper here but I used to know a lot more chemistry in a former life. And my question, that goes along with yours, is - wouldn't over fatting the soap save more of the scent? Basically, saponification is a chemical reaction. For every molecule of lye it will change a molecule of fat...That being said, if you put in more fat than the lye will eat shouldn't you get stronger scents? I know it is a balance since you need to get the oils changed into soap. But I see some people doing like 10% Superfat. Doesn't it make sense that you would get stronger scents? Or an I missing something?

I believe it is more complicated than that. First, you have the highly alkaline environment, which persists even after the lye has been broken apart chemically to create soap. Then you have exposure to the air, loss of moisture over time, possible rancidity over time in the unsaponified oils, and no doubt other factors that also affect scent retention. So while it is possible that higher SF could affect scent retention, I would doubt that it is any kind of linear or predictable outcome, given the almost endless possible combinations of base oils, additives, temperatures, FO components, and so much more.

 

[ResolvableOwl]

In my (limited) experience, essential oils are all quite transient

All EOs are not created equal.

It really depends what scents you are aiming for. Replicating cocoa butter scent sounds in reach, like a job for cocoa scCO₂ extract (don't ask who has a vial of it sitting around for too long already). It is technically not too far from an EO. Coconut is arguably nearly impossible to recreate even with the full chemical toolbox of FOs. Vanilla absolute/FO works fine, but interferes with colour. Some EOs are not lye-safe (alter their scent in soap), like lavender, clary sage, peru balsam…

Drying/curing/storage of scented soap is always a trade-off between water and fragrance evaporation.

 

[maryloucb]

It takes some experimentation, but there are definitely some EOs that last very well in CP soap. There are going to be scents that you absolutely can't get with EOs (fruit scents for example), but you would be surprised at what you can do with blending EOs!

Some EOs are not lye-safe (alter their scent in soap), like lavender, clary sage, peru balsam…

You say these EOs are not lye-safe, but these are some of the best lasting scents to use, so I'm not exactly sure what you mean. Are you just saying they are different after saponification? Clary sage is one of my absolute favorite EOs to use in CP soap. It's got a fresh, grassy scent and can be used to approximate the scent of tea. Lots of FOs smell different after saponification as well.

 

[vnikolic]

Does anyone else have an adverse physical reaction to FO's? I have tried many, (read spent way too much money!), only to find that I get nausea and a killer headache and can't be in the same room with them, and out of the 50 plus FO's i have purchased, i have only been able to soap with less than 10 of them.

If they don't make me physically ill, they have that lingering synthetic backnote that never seems to go away.

I love BB's red rea and lychee, espresso, mango mango, which sadly they discontinued, cucumber melon and creamsicle.

I will dive into the pages above, but for now, was just curious if anyone else had the same nausea/headache issues with FO.

 

[artemis]

Does anyone else have an adverse physical reaction to FO's? I have tried many, (read spent way too much money!), only to find that I get nausea and a killer headache and can't be in the same room with them, and out of the 50 plus FO's i have purchased, i have only been able to soap with less than 10 of them.

If they don't make me physically ill, they have that lingering synthetic backnote that never seems to go away.

I love BB's red rea and lychee, espresso, mango mango, which sadly they discontinued, cucumber melon and creamsicle.

I will dive into the pages above, but for now, was just curious if anyone else had the same nausea/headache issues with FO.

I think with such an important question, you should start a new thread so it doesn't get lost in this old one.

 

[soapmaker]

Yes I do but not to the extreme that it seems you do. I can get through making the soap and then take it to my cousin's house to cure. Only rarely has an essential oil blend done that. I know exactly what you mean by that "lingering synthetic backnote."

 

[vnikolic]

Yes I do but not to the extreme that it seems you do. I can get through making the soap and then take it to my cousin's house to cure. Only rarely has an essential oil blend done that. I know exactly what you mean by that "lingering synthetic backnote."

Have you found any FO's you like that don't have that backnote? I guess I need to read all those aforementioned links b4 pestering people.

I like fresh, fruity, minty, earthy, herbal and some florals that aren't too cloying...i like rose and geranium, but struggle with ylang ylang, neroli and jasmine.

I have been playing over at eocalc a lot, but don't want to spend a fortune on ones I have never actually experienced.

Tky in advance for your reply.

 

[soapmaker]

I can tolerate Georgia Peach, Blood Orange and Meyer Lemon, all from WSP. But keep in mind that everyone's nose and head are different.

 

[AliOop]

Does anyone else have an adverse physical reaction to FO's? I have tried many, (read spent way too much money!), only to find that I get nausea and a killer headache and can't be in the same room with them, and out of the 50 plus FO's i have purchased, i have only been able to soap with less than 10 of them.

If they don't make me physically ill, they have that lingering synthetic backnote that never seems to go away.

I love BB's red rea and lychee, espresso, mango mango, which sadly they discontinued, cucumber melon and creamsicle.

I will dive into the pages above, but for now, was just curious if anyone else had the same nausea/headache issues with FO.

I do! Even if I love the actual fragrance, most of them make me ill. My first symptom is usually a sudden and dramatic blood sugar drop - like I am going to pass out from hypoglycemia. If I get past that, then I feel nauseous. Beyond that is migraine time. I've learned to get out of the room the moment I feel my blood sugar dropping.

Fruity, spicy, musky and floral scents tend to be the worst. I used to tolerate most coconut FOs, but those are now on the bad list, as well. Bakery and green scents are usually OK.

 

[soapmaker]

I do! Even if I love the actual fragrance, most of them make me ill. My first symptom is usually a sudden and dramatic blood sugar drop - like I am going to pass out from hypoglycemia. If I get past that, then I feel nauseous. Beyond that is migraine time. I've learned to get out of the room the moment I feel my blood sugar dropping.

Fruity, spicy, musky and floral scents tend to be the worst. I used to tolerate most coconut FOs, but those are now on the bad list, as well. Bakery and green scents are usually OK.

Oh you poor thing! I have hypoglycemia but FOs don't cause it to drop! When I first started to make soap 19 years ago, there was an essential oil blend I used that made me feel sick. I had to go outside. It doesn't bother me at all now.

 

[vnikolic]

I do! Even if I love the actual fragrance, most of them make me ill. My first symptom is usually a sudden and dramatic blood sugar drop - like I am going to pass out from hypoglycemia. If I get past that, then I feel nauseous. Beyond that is migraine time. I've learned to get out of the room the moment I feel my blood sugar dropping.

Fruity, spicy, musky and floral scents tend to be the worst. I used to tolerate most coconut FOs, but those are now on the bad list, as well. Bakery and green scents are usually OK.

Me too! I wanted to love the dark chocolate from bb as it didn't make me ill, but that plastic, some call it play dough, smell just hasn't gone away, though the chocolate scent is almost gone.

Today I made a honey, GM and oatmeal soap and used "oatmeal lavender " eo blend from eocalc. 40 lavender 40 lemon 10 geranium and 10 ylang ylang, though i even struggle with the latter so i did 18 geranium and 1 ylang ylang and 1 benzoin. Hope it sticks around, as it's actually pretty good. I tried a number of "oatmeal milk and honey" FO's from 3 different sources and had to throw them all out. :•{

I want to love FO's....my coffee soap with the espresso FO is wonderful and costs only 80 cents a bar to make! Soaping with EO's has some bars costing me $3.50/ bar to make and i have to get them out as soon as they hit 6 weeks.

Do you all just buy trial sizes and make tiny batches?