Syndet shampoo bar - any tips for forming a smooth looking bar?

[DeeAnna]

Well, darn, I can't edit my previous post. Grrr. The link in the last sentence is coded wrong. Here's a corrected version:

This recipe is also provided in this thread: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=63410

 

[JillGat]

DeeAnna,
I noticed a few differences between your shampoo recipe and SwiftMonkey's:

She calls for Incroquat BTMS-50 specifically. This drove me crazy, as there is such variation between suppliers, even in the chemical name of what BTMS stands for. Your recipe simplified it to "Conditioning emulsifier". I have some BTMS-25 (does not include stearic acid)... will that work for this ingredient?

She includes "10% SMC or SMO taurate" in her heated phase. You leave it out. What is that?

You leave out the dimethicone in the Cool Down Phase. Why? What is that, actually?

If I make a 100g bar, the cool down phase ingredients are still only going to be a few grams. Will I be able to actually mix that tiny amount into the pulpy heated phase ingredients?

Thanks!

 

[kchaystack]

DeeAnna,
I noticed a few differences between your shampoo recipe and SwiftMonkey's:

She calls for Incroquat BTMS-50 specifically. This drove me crazy, as there is such variation between suppliers, even in the chemical name of what BTMS stands for. Your recipe simplified it to "Conditioning emulsifier". I have some BTMS-25 (does not include stearic acid)... will that work for this ingredient?

She includes "10% SMC or SMO taurate" in her heated phase. You leave it out. What is that?

You leave out the dimethicone in the Cool Down Phase. Why? What is that, actually?

If I make a 100g bar, the cool down phase ingredients are still only going to be a few grams. Will I be able to actually mix that tiny amount into the pulpy heated phase ingredients?

Thanks!

I am not DeeAnna, but here you go:

In the 2 articles below, Susan talks about using BTMS-25 when the recipe calls for BTMS-50 tho she uses cetyl alcohol instead of stearic acid. Both are used as a thickener usually, with stearic acid creating a thicker product than cetyl alcohol.


BTMS is short for behentrimonium methosulfate.

http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.ca/2009/06/substitutions-what-to-use-when-you-cant.html

http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com/2013/06/question-how-much-cetyl-alcohol-to-use.html

 

[DeeAnna]

DeeAnna,
I noticed a few differences between your shampoo recipe and SwiftMonkey's....

That doesn't surprise me because I didn't use Susan's recipe as inspiration when I created my own version.

In my post where I provided my recipe, I said the recipe provided by Cathy at The Dish forum is the basis for mine. It's entirely possible that Susan (swift crafty monkey) used Cathy's recipe to create hers since Cathy's recipe probably predates Susan's.

"...She includes "10% SMC or SMO taurate" in her heated phase. You leave it out. What is that?..."

Well, see my previous message. Even if I had done a riff on Susan's recipe, my inclination is to keep things reasonably simple. Susan has a tendency to use a lot of additives because of what she does as a blogger and has people sending her samples and all that. That's just not my style. Also I don't have the money nor desire to keep a cabinet full of various additives.

"...You leave out the dimethicone in the Cool Down Phase. Why? What is that, actually?..."

It's a light silicone that can make the hair easier to detangle and comb. I don't see a lot of benefit to adding this to a shampoo -- it makes more sense to me to put this kind of thing in the conditioner. I use a silicone alternative product called hemisqualane in my conditioner bar -- it serves the same function and helps reduce frizz.

"...If I make a 100g bar ... Will I be able to actually mix that tiny amount into the pulpy heated phase ingredients? ..."

Yes.

You'd have the same problem if you made a 500 gram batch -- the proportion of the cool down ingredients to the main ingredients doesn't change just because you increase the batch size. If you are concerned, mix the batch as best you can and then put the product in the refrigerator to cool until it's soft but not overly sticky. Then knead the product like bread dough. That will also help.

Regarding the BTMS, KC said it best.

 

[JillGat]

DeeAnna and KC, you guys are the bomb. Thanks so much. You are right, DeeAnna.. Susan aka swiftmonkey got the recipe from Cathy at the Dish and modified it. I had thought yours was a modification of Susan's, but thanks for the clarification. I like your recipe better because it calls for fewer ingredients and you actually spell out the names instead of just using acronyms. I have most of the ingredients now, so can't wait to make shampoo bars! Thanks again.

 

[Dahila]

JillGat my recipe does not look like Susan's, I was working on it for a year tweaking, so I got one now that I like it and it is much cheaper. No much left from Susan's just the idea

 

[DeeAnna]

...Have you seen those vibrating wands... Maybe some kind of shake table....

BG, my mind is in the gutter today. :silent:

 

[BrewerGeorge]

BG, my mind is in the gutter today. :silent:

I confess, I was imagining what I presume you're also imagining as an easily obtainable source for said vibrations as I wrote that post. I just decided this place was too gentile to mention it. :evil:

 

[JillGat]

BG no but as soon as it sets up , I use my soap planer and sharp knife, they look almost decent now

Dahila, Would you post a picture?

 

[yumyum1311]

I recommend plastic moon cake mould. The bar is harden and lasts longer.
Here is my batch with these mould. So cutee haa!!

 

[Dahila]

Dahila, Would you post a picture?

My pics are somewhere in this thread Jill

Somehow It is hard to believe that mooncake will work on Syndet , it is too sticky

 

[yumyum1311]

Well, it depends on how to take the syndet bar out the mold.
I have 2 mooncake mold and I see this link on Amazon. In Vietnam, they are about 4-5 dollars but you can try.https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MFI1W0I/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
:santa::grin::smile::x

 

[Dahila]

Well, it depends on how to take the syndet bar out the mold.
I have 2 mooncake mold and I see this link on Amazon. In Vietnam, they are about 4-5 dollars but you can try.https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MFI1W0I/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
:santa::grin::smile::x

well I have about 20 mooncakes and the dough is too sticky to use the moon cake even with using bs to wipe it up
Good for you you mastered it

 

[yumyum1311]

well I have about 20 mooncakes and the dough is too sticky to use the moon cake even with using bs to wipe it up
Good for you you mastered it

oh, some tips I get
- Wait mixed cool, like clay for kid to play or add little moisture( sr I do not know how to describe
- after press, put them in freezer 30min to 1h
- Tap around the mold on table edge 10 times or more, feel the bar come out plate and take it out. The baker make mooncake in traditional way with wood mold, usually tap around the mold to unmold.
These tips really work for me. Goodluck to you

 

[Dahila]

oh, some tips I get
- Wait mixed cool, like clay for kid to play or add little moisture( sr I do not know how to describe
- after press, put them in freezer 30min to 1h
- Tap around the mold on table edge 10 times or more, feel the bar come out plate and take it out. The baker make mooncake in traditional way with wood mold, usually tap around the mold to unmold.
These tips really work for me. Goodluck to you

thanks I will try one and see , when ever I put dough into it I dust it with baking soda so it relieves easier I must try

 

[yumyum1311]

thanks I will try one and see , when ever I put dough into it I dust it with baking soda so it relieves easier I must try

you can combine all tips. Because I don't have any powder to dust at that time, so I try to do the way I had seen on TV about making mooncake and it works. When making mooncake, baker have other tip is rub the mold with oil but i think it doesn't work for syndet bar. Haha

 

[Paloma MS]

DeeAnna, thank you so much for this. But its impossible for me to access to Susan's (swift crafty monkey) blog. It seems its private. Do you know where else can I see the posts you are sharing here? Thank you!

I just made my first test batch of a shampoo bar using synthetic detergents (syndets). DH and I have washed our hair once each with this bar, but so far so good.

My recipe is based on info from Cathy at The Dish (see http://www.soapdisharchives.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=22602&st=25#) as well as advice from Susan (swift crafty monkey) about her syndet shampoo bars (see http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com/2010/06/shampoo-shampoo-bars-overview.html and http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com/2010/06/shampoo-conditioning-shampoo-bars-for_03.html ) Between those two ladies, I think I'm in reasonably good hands as far as the formulation goes.

I'm still at a loss, however, about how to form the syndet mixture into an attractive bar. Most of the bars I see for sale on etsy and other websites are rather rustic looking and I now know why.

There are two ways these bars are made -- one is like a bath bomb where the solid powders/flakes are mixed with a bit of liquid and pressed into a mold. The "bath bomb" type of bar has a sandy look:

Ponte Vedra Soap Shoppe:

Ponte Vedra recipe and method: http://pvsoap.com/solid-shampoo-bar-made-with-sls-needles/

Lush:

The other method is to melt the syndets and other ingredients to form a homogenous paste that is then pressed into a mold. This paste is really really sticky and has to be glopped, not poured into a container, much like a soft shave soap. Most bars made this way look like this:

Alaiyna B Bath and Body:

But the shampoo bars by Scenter Square on Etsy look smooth and refined, like this, and I really like the look:

Does anyone have some tips on how I might get this smooth, polished appearance?

 

[DeeAnna]

Swift Crafty Monkey is not private -- it's now a paid service. She is asking readers to pay at least $1 per month to get that info now. While it's nice to get stuff for free, I understand her decision to ask readers to support her work.
https://swiftcraftymonkey.blog/tag/shampoo-bar/

You can become a member of The Dish (for free) and access Cathy's information about shampoo bars (see the link in my Post #1).
http://www.thedishforum.com/forum/index.php?app=core&module=global&section=register

 

[amd]

In the May 2018 issue of Handmade Magazine, there was an article by Susan regarding syndet shampoo bars. Pages 22-25 and it has recipes. I have not tried any of them out, and I do not know if these are Susan's recommended recipes or created by WSP. I have not tried any of them, so cannot vouch for if they are good recipes (if they are not Susan's).

 

[cmzaha]

When I first started making shampoo bars I used one of Susan's recipe and all it did was get mushy and would melt in the heat outdoors, so I had to tweak and make up my own. They are trial and error like anything.