Sugar vs Lye?

[Bill]

Quick question. When adding sugar to cp soap do I need to adjust the amount of NaOH? I know when using vinegar instead of water the lye amount needs to be adjusted to account for the amount of lye that the vinegar will consume.

When I add the sugar to my lye/water mix, it heats up a lot. - So was wondering the same thing. Is there a chemical reaction going on that is using up a part of my lye?

I have searched online for an answer with no luck.

Thanks for your replies.

 

[dibbles]

You don't need to adjust the lye when using sugar. You do need to dissolve the sugar completely in the water before adding the lye or it will turn into a gloppy mess.

 

[DeeAnna]

Yes sugars do react with the alkali. But I don't know of anyone who adjusts their alkali weight -- even I don't, despite knowing this happens.

The main reason why I don't worry about this is only a small amount of sugar is typically added in proportion to the total fat, so the error is small.

The other reason is there are sooo many different kinds of sugars. It becomes impractical to account for them all. There are sugars in table sugar (obviously) but don't forget the sugars in honey, maple syrup, dairy milk, beer, vegetable purees, etc.

And other minor ingredients that might not contain sugars, but still react with alkali. Accelerating fragrances is one example.

 

[Bill]

Yes sugars do react with the alkali. But I don't know of anyone who adjusts their alkali weight -- even I don't, despite knowing this happens.

The main reason why I don't worry about this is only a small amount of sugar is typically added in proportion to the total fat, so the error is small.

The other reason is there are sooo many different kinds of sugars. It becomes impractical to account for them all. There are sugars in table sugar (obviously) but don't forget the sugars in honey, maple syrup, dairy milk, beer, vegetable purees, etc.

And other minor ingredients that might not contain sugars, but still react with alkali. Accelerating fragrances is one example.

I did a deeper dive into google with the search question:
"how much sodium hydroxide to convert sugar"

The AI's answer: "
To dissolve 6 grams of sugar (sucrose) in water, you need 10 grams of sodium hydroxide (NaOH). The reaction between sodium hydroxide and water is exothermic, so it will produce heat. The solution will be clear and sweet-tasting. "

10 g of lye for 6 grams of sugar? Seems like a lot of lye to me. Does the math seem correct to you?

 

[Bronxboyz]

Quick question. When adding sugar to cp soap do I need to adjust the amount of NaOH? I know when using vinegar instead of water the lye amount needs to be adjusted to account for the amount of lye that the vinegar will consume.

When I add the sugar to my lye/water mix, it heats up a lot. - So was wondering the same thing. Is there a chemical reaction going on that is using up a part of my lye?

I have searched online for an answer with no luck.

Thanks for your replies.

Hi Bill, you should not change the amount of sodium hydroxide. Add a little sugar, like a teaspoon in water first and it will dissolve immediately, before adding sodium hydroxide. Please research polar and non polar molecules. Also a better additive is honey. It adds such a warm bubbly lather and nice feel to the bar.

 

[Kcryss]

I did a deeper dive into google with the search question:
"how much sodium hydroxide to convert sugar"

The AI's answer: "
To dissolve 6 grams of sugar (sucrose) in water, you need 10 grams of sodium hydroxide (NaOH). The reaction between sodium hydroxide and water is exothermic, so it will produce heat. The solution will be clear and sweet-tasting. "

10 g of lye for 6 grams of sugar? Seems like a lot of lye to me. Does the math seem correct to you?

Umm ... really? Sweet tasting? Not sure I would be willing to "taste" the result. I think the missing link with the question is that it is not referencing soap making and it doesn't really answer the question you posed. You asked about converting and the answer is simply dissolving ... although in all fairness I supposed that is a conversion ...

 

[Bronxboyz]

Quick question. When adding sugar to cp soap do I need to adjust the amount of NaOH? I know when using vinegar instead of water the lye amount needs to be adjusted to account for the amount of lye that the vinegar will consume.

When I add the sugar to my lye/water mix, it heats up a lot. - So was wondering the same thing. Is there a chemical reaction going on that is using up a part of my lye?

I have searched online for an answer with no luck.

Thanks for your replies.

Bill sorry for not explaining more. Think about why you need sodium hydroxide. What does it do? Remember the amount you use is determined by how much oil you're using, not by how much sugar. Sugar has nothing to do with it. What is your goal for wanting to add sugar anyway? More lather because the bar becomes more water soluble? This is true, but try honey, or bear, or aloe vera juice, or clay. Research those additives because they give the bar a tremendous lather and silky feel.

 

[AliOop]

This is true, but try honey, or bear, or aloe vera juice, or clay. Research those additives because they give the bar a tremendous lather and silky feel.

Interesting suggestion but not sure how I'd wrestle a bear into the mold...

Just razzin' ya, @Bronxboyz, I know you meant beer. I do think that sugar or aloe vera juice are the easiest for beginners to add to their soap for better lather. Beer and honey require some extra steps and will both heat up the batter quite a bit.

 

[Bill]

Umm ... really? Sweet tasting? Not sure I would be willing to "taste" the result. I think the missing link with the question is that it is not referencing soap making and it doesn't really answer the question you posed. You asked about converting and the answer is simply dissolving ... although in all fairness I supposed that is a conversion ...

lol. In the kitchen it would be Sweet tasting I guess. Mix a little sugar with water, add the lye ... and make some sweet tasting pretzels.

 

[Bronxboyz]

Interesting suggestion but not sure how I'd wrestle a bear into the mold...

Just razzin' ya, @Bronxboyz, I know you meant beer. I do think that sugar or aloe vera juice are the easiest for beginners to add to their soap for better lather. Beer and honey require some extra steps and will both heat up the batter quite a bit.

Haha sorry!

 

[Bill]

Hi Bill, you should not change the amount of sodium hydroxide. Add a little sugar, like a teaspoon in water first and it will dissolve immediately, before adding sodium hydroxide. Please research polar and non polar molecules. Also a better additive is honey. It adds such a warm bubbly lather and nice feel to the bar.

Thanks for the replies. I will give honey a try. I was trying out sugar because it's cheaper. Olive oil has jumped up so much in price the cost of making a nice bar of soap is slowing going up.. lol

 

[Bronxboyz]

Interesting suggestion but not sure how I'd wrestle a bear into the mold...

Just razzin' ya, @Bronxboyz, I know you meant beer. I do think that sugar or aloe vera juice are the easiest for beginners to add to their soap for better lather. Beer and honey require some extra steps and will both heat up the batter quite a bit.

That's true.

 

[Kcryss]

lol. In the kitchen it would be Sweet tasting I guess. Mix a little sugar with water, add the lye ... and make some sweet tasting pretzels.

Lol,ok good point, but hopefully there is a lot of water.

 

[artemis]

Personal opinion:
If you're new to soapmaking, hold off on the honey and beer for a bit and stick to the sugar until you read up on how they behave. They are a little more complicated to use than plain old sugar.

 

[DeeAnna]

The AI's answer: "....

Why are you asking AI for a science based answer? You have no idea where those numbers are coming from -- AI is not a reputable source for this type of info.

What is your goal for wanting to add sugar anyway? ... try honey, or bear, or aloe vera juice, or clay....

Except beer and honey both contain sugars. Depending on the type of aloe product you use, it may also contain sugars.

So I'm not sure why you'd recommend these ingredients if you want to avoid adding sugars to your soap.

 

[Bronxboyz]

Except beer and honey both contain sugars. Depending on the type of aloe product you use, it may also contain sugars.

So I'm not sure why you'd recommend these ingredients if you want to avoid adding sugars to your soap.

I thought Bill wanted to add sugar to his soap. So I said sugar amount should be small and added to the water, not rje lye/water. Also, sodium hydroxide amount doesn't change when you add sugar because we know NaOH amount is based on oil amount etc. I also said it's good to know polar and non- polar molecules to understand how sugar and other molecules dissolve or do not dissolve. Finally, aloe vera juice, honey, and beer are great to boost lather. They all contain sugar true. As another member said they are advanced techniques which is true. That's all. Ask me anything.